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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: |
Snip:
I had the same question about Gonzalo's prior identities. Pretty clear to me that the Boy who cried Wolf is Jack Spain (the love for the Hawks is a giveaway), and the late lamented jez07 - who vapourized the minute we started winning - seems to have handed the baton over to the newbie Gonzalo. It's a pretty fair question from Jackcass. |
Incorrect, I despise the Hawks. The difference is I'm willing to acknowledge that in short to medium history, they have blown us off the park as far as silverware goes.... |
Correction, aside from the Pussies, the piss and poop have blown every friggin team off the park, as far as silverware goes, howd ya like to be a saints fan, one miserable flag in 170 yrs, or a doggies fan, have not even made a GF since 1961, or maybe a Deeees fan, last won a flag when the Beatles toured Australia. Don't just single us out, the dawks have dominated us all. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Gonzalo wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | I'm not sure what I am pointing out is exactly hard to understand.
The gameplan we employed in 2010 was based on manic pressure, causing turnovers and locking the ball in the forward 50.
The explosion of the interchange rotations by Mick was a cornerstone of this. The high rotation numbers allowed players to play the pressure game at a very high level.
If you read the book by James Coventry on tactics there is one chapter on this philosphy.
The gameplan became more taxing on the players as the interchange rotations gradually reduced from 2011 when there was an introduction of a sub and it has gone to a stage where interchanges are capped.
In 2010 we may have had a young 22 that won the flag, but we had a strong core of 30 players that had a number of very experienced players in that rotation. From Ball to Presti, to Jolly to Didak.
In 2016 rotations have been capped and we simply don't have this squad of experienced players. That is a big reason why the manic gameplan is fatiguing the list and injuries are being recorded at epidemic levels. |
Thank you for writing it out clearly for we simple folk. I don't agree that the philosophy of high pressure football has gone purely because we now have a cap on rotations. I would have thought the primary reason we lifted our training loads by 30% in 2013-14 and again in 2014-15 preseasons was specifically to allow the exact same philosophy to be applied in a reducing rotations paradigm. Think footy in 2016 is more manic than it has ever been. |
If you look at stats, there is no direct colleration between contested disposals, tackling numbers, pressure acts and team success.
The best sides these days are those who are most efficient with the ball. The rise of zones adapted by BB and soccer tactics have seen this as sides need to pick through these zones. Good sides are able to tire their opponents by keeping the ball in their hands and those sides are able to force turnovers by setting up zones that slow ball movement and see their opponents kick to 50/50 contests.
Until the gameplan is totally changed, the list has an abundance of skilled players that can pick through zones, we will rely on manic pressure and tackling and thus will always have long injury lists.
There have been mitigating factors but there has been no improvement and change in the strategy from 2015 to 2016. We can only beat sides if we bring manic pressure to the table. This approach is not sustainable and it eventually wears down the list in terms of injuries and fatigue. |
The best sides have stable playing groups of established senior players. Think you're just trying to find fault when there isn't evidence to support it. Just some baseless extraplolation of observations from afar. Happy to agree to disagree. If you get some hard and fast facts I'll be happy to hear them. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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AND can someone please enlighten me, how the friggin hell did both kruezer and casboult play for the bluescum last week ?? kruz apparantely did his ACL, casboult had a broken bone, yet both played. WTF???? Either the scum have a messiah down there, a witch doctor, or have a medical staff far far, advanced on our own. WE have blokes dropping left right and centre, out for weeks on end, endlessly, they get two bad outs and don't miss one $£$%^%%$ game. sigh.
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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Gonzalez, thanks for explaining it so clearly. I now understand your argument that:-
1. The increase in training loads has led to increases in soft tissue injury . Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
2. The decrease in the rotation cap has led to increases in soft tissue injury. Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
3. In 2010 they avoided soft tissue injury because players were rotated through the team. It has been pointed out that we are not yet half way through the season and yet more players have been used this year than in 2010.
4. We play a manic hard tackling type of game that has led to the injuries resulting from collisions but the good teams force their opposition to kick to a 50/50 contest to turn the ball over. Because the good teams have a better game plan and are not as young and are not as fatigued they do not have to tackle in those 50/50 contests therefore they do not suffer from collision type injuries.
Have I missed anything? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | Gonzalez, thanks for explaining it so clearly. I now understand your argument that:-
1. The increase in training loads has led to increases in soft tissue injury . Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
2. The decrease in the rotation cap has led to increases in soft tissue injury. Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
3. In 2010 they avoided soft tissue injury because players were rotated through the team. It has been pointed out that we are not yet half way through the season and yet more players have been used this year than in 2010.
4. We play a manic hard tackling type of game that has led to the injuries resulting from collisions but the good teams force their opposition to kick to a 50/50 contest to turn the ball over. Because the good teams have a better game plan and are not as young and are not as fatigued they do not have to tackle in those 50/50 contests therefore they do not suffer from collision type injuries.
Have I missed anything? |
^ Only the fact that there is no such thing as luck - anything bad that happens is always the fault of those idiots Buckley and Balme and Davoren who know so little about football and fitness, compared to your humble correspondent. Add that, and I think you've got it perfectly !
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
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Collingwood Crackerjack
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Canberra
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| jackcass wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | I'm not sure what I am pointing out is exactly hard to understand.
The gameplan we employed in 2010 was based on manic pressure, causing turnovers and locking the ball in the forward 50.
The explosion of the interchange rotations by Mick was a cornerstone of this. The high rotation numbers allowed players to play the pressure game at a very high level.
If you read the book by James Coventry on tactics there is one chapter on this philosphy.
The gameplan became more taxing on the players as the interchange rotations gradually reduced from 2011 when there was an introduction of a sub and it has gone to a stage where interchanges are capped.
In 2010 we may have had a young 22 that won the flag, but we had a strong core of 30 players that had a number of very experienced players in that rotation. From Ball to Presti, to Jolly to Didak.
In 2016 rotations have been capped and we simply don't have this squad of experienced players. That is a big reason why the manic gameplan is fatiguing the list and injuries are being recorded at epidemic levels. |
Thank you for writing it out clearly for we simple folk. I don't agree that the philosophy of high pressure football has gone purely because we now have a cap on rotations. I would have thought the primary reason we lifted our training loads by 30% in 2013-14 and again in 2014-15 preseasons was specifically to allow the exact same philosophy to be applied in a reducing rotations paradigm. Think footy in 2016 is more manic than it has ever been. |
And perhaps therein lie the horns of the dilemma
_________________
"The last thing he expected WAS THE FIRST THING HE GOT!!!!!"
© Collingwood Crackerjack, 1992 |
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Gonzalo
Joined: 30 May 2016
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | Gonzalez, thanks for explaining it so clearly. I now understand your argument that:-
1. The increase in training loads has led to increases in soft tissue injury . Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
2. The decrease in the rotation cap has led to increases in soft tissue injury. Except for this season when they appear to have reduced;
3. In 2010 they avoided soft tissue injury because players were rotated through the team. It has been pointed out that we are not yet half way through the season and yet more players have been used this year than in 2010.
4. We play a manic hard tackling type of game that has led to the injuries resulting from collisions but the good teams force their opposition to kick to a 50/50 contest to turn the ball over. Because the good teams have a better game plan and are not as young and are not as fatigued they do not have to tackle in those 50/50 contests therefore they do not suffer from collision type injuries.
Have I missed anything? |
It's not that black and white as you point out.
In 2010, the 'game speed' wasn't as fast as it is today. There have been rule adjustments such as being able to kick in as quick as possible, the deliberate rule being tightened and changes in the interpretation of holding the ball that have resulted in the game having less stoppages. You couple that with interchanges being uncapped then and there wasn't a soft tissue epidemic there because players were playing the game at a lesser speed, they were spending less time on the ground and as a result, the fatigue in muscles wasn't as great. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Collingwood Crackerjack wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Gonzalo wrote: | I'm not sure what I am pointing out is exactly hard to understand.
The gameplan we employed in 2010 was based on manic pressure, causing turnovers and locking the ball in the forward 50.
The explosion of the interchange rotations by Mick was a cornerstone of this. The high rotation numbers allowed players to play the pressure game at a very high level.
If you read the book by James Coventry on tactics there is one chapter on this philosphy.
The gameplan became more taxing on the players as the interchange rotations gradually reduced from 2011 when there was an introduction of a sub and it has gone to a stage where interchanges are capped.
In 2010 we may have had a young 22 that won the flag, but we had a strong core of 30 players that had a number of very experienced players in that rotation. From Ball to Presti, to Jolly to Didak.
In 2016 rotations have been capped and we simply don't have this squad of experienced players. That is a big reason why the manic gameplan is fatiguing the list and injuries are being recorded at epidemic levels. |
Thank you for writing it out clearly for we simple folk. I don't agree that the philosophy of high pressure football has gone purely because we now have a cap on rotations. I would have thought the primary reason we lifted our training loads by 30% in 2013-14 and again in 2014-15 preseasons was specifically to allow the exact same philosophy to be applied in a reducing rotations paradigm. Think footy in 2016 is more manic than it has ever been. |
And perhaps therein lie the horns of the dilemma |
May well be the case CC but I can't see any coaches out there suggesting to their players that they go at 90-95%, and supporters would soon voice their concerns if they did. |
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