Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
The Nathan Buckley Debate - Back Bucks or Sack Bucks?

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 4 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion
 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 108, 109, 110  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Nathan Buckley: what should the club do with him?
Sack him now and pay him out
18%
 18%  [ 28 ]
Sack him at season's end and pay him out
14%
 14%  [ 22 ]
Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to sack)
14%
 14%  [ 22 ]
Wait and see until season's end, then review (inclined to keep)
17%
 17%  [ 26 ]
Keep him until mid-season 2017, then reassess
5%
 5%  [ 9 ]
Keep him until end of 2017, then reassess
17%
 17%  [ 27 ]
Back him for as long as it takes! All We Can Be with NCB!
9%
 9%  [ 15 ]
Other (please outline in the thread)
1%
 1%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 151

Author Message
Piesnchess 

piesnchess


Joined: 09 Jun 2008


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:38 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.



HE has never had the luxury of an injury free list, not once mate. Hopefully this can change next season, but this ones a write off. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
qldmagpie67 



Joined: 18 Dec 2008


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:04 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

What amazes me with all this talk is no one has named a replacement. Yes it's easy to say this coach sack this assistant etc but who replaces them ?
The bemoaners huff n puff and say bring anyone in they would be a better job than Buckley. Really if this was the case then Joe Bloggs off the street would come cheap and save clubs money. Truth is if your going to replace w coach then you a new one
Thompson has said he won't b coaching again in the foreseeable future. Choco Williams has stated he isn't interested in a head coach role. That would leave untied assistant
The ones who just right off injuries being a factor and naive or just plain Buckley bashers. Injuries are a reason not the total reason but a real factor.
We've used 36-37 players so far and likely to be at least another one or 2 before seasons end.
Look at the last 15 premiership winning sides and none have used more than 34 and that includes clubs who have rested multiple players late in the season. The average of competing grand final sides for the past 15yrs is 30.78 players average.
We just don't have the experienced depth to have those amount of injuries.
It's not only injuries but who is injured. Our structure has been rattled all year. We haven't been able to get our best 22 on the paddock yet (and won't because Elliott is gone for the season along with Swanny)
There's to much pressure of younger inexperienced players and some weeks they handle it some weeks they don't. That's the natural learning curve.
Look Buckley might lose his job at seasons end or he might see out his contract as well but one thing I can assure everyone is no matter what gets said on here won't make a lick of difference (thankfully those running the club are way smarter than to listen to some of the dribble written here)
Envying is entitled to an opinion and that's great and I love the debating side of it but don't come in sprouting opinion in the guise of facts.
Statements Buckley stood up at a members forum and said he would train the players hard and didn't care if they broke down.
That's just a plain face lie. He actually said the training loads on the players would be increased but monitored to ensure they are always at there optimal fitness levels.
You can hate Buckley that's your personal choice and you can want him sacked that's fine but don't lie to suit your agendas
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
woftam Gemini

I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:10 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Piesnchess wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.



HE has never had the luxury of an injury free list, not once mate. Hopefully this can change next season, but this ones a write off. Rolling Eyes



No coach has an injury free list Piesnchess. Results must count & his are getting worse every single year. Everybody makes excuses because of who he was as a player. If our coach from 2011 onwards was say Robert Harvey, he would have been replaced at least 2 years ago & if he wasn't everybody would be calling for his head.
This is a classic case of heart ruling the head.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
woftam Gemini

I used to be undecided, but now I'm not so sure.


Joined: 28 Jul 2008
Location: Carum Downs, Vic

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:13 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

qldmagpie67 wrote:
What amazes me with all this talk is no one has named a replacement. Yes it's easy to say this coach sack this assistant etc but who replaces them ?
The bemoaners huff n puff and say bring anyone in they would be a better job than Buckley. Really if this was the case then Joe Bloggs off the street would come cheap and save clubs money. Truth is if your going to replace w coach then you a new one
Thompson has said he won't b coaching again in the foreseeable future. Choco Williams has stated he isn't interested in a head coach role. That would leave untied assistant
The ones who just right off injuries being a factor and naive or just plain Buckley bashers. Injuries are a reason not the total reason but a real factor.
We've used 36-37 players so far and likely to be at least another one or 2 before seasons end.
Look at the last 15 premiership winning sides and none have used more than 34 and that includes clubs who have rested multiple players late in the season. The average of competing grand final sides for the past 15yrs is 30.78 players average.
We just don't have the experienced depth to have those amount of injuries.
It's not only injuries but who is injured. Our structure has been rattled all year. We haven't been able to get our best 22 on the paddock yet (and won't because Elliott is gone for the season along with Swanny)
There's to much pressure of younger inexperienced players and some weeks they handle it some weeks they don't. That's the natural learning curve.
Look Buckley might lose his job at seasons end or he might see out his contract as well but one thing I can assure everyone is no matter what gets said on here won't make a lick of difference (thankfully those running the club are way smarter than to listen to some of the dribble written here)
Envying is entitled to an opinion and that's great and I love the debating side of it but don't come in sprouting opinion in the guise of facts.
Statements Buckley stood up at a members forum and said he would train the players hard and didn't care if they broke down.
That's just a plain face lie. He actually said the training loads on the players would be increased but monitored to ensure they are always at there optimal fitness levels.
You can hate Buckley that's your personal choice and you can want him sacked that's fine but don't lie to suit your agendas



It's simple, you interview every prospective coach in the country & make an informed decision afterwards. The exact process that should have been put in place after Mick's time was up.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Piesnchess 

piesnchess


Joined: 09 Jun 2008


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:19 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

woftam wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.



HE has never had the luxury of an injury free list, not once mate. Hopefully this can change next season, but this ones a write off. Rolling Eyes



No coach has an injury free list Piesnchess. Results must count & his are getting worse every single year. Everybody makes excuses because of who he was as a player. If our coach from 2011 onwards was say Robert Harvey, he would have been replaced at least 2 years ago & if he wasn't everybody would be calling for his head.
This is a classic case of heart ruling the head.




15 injured players is enough to gut any team, that's what we have had to deal with, not even jock McHale or norm smith, or barassi, or Clarkson, could do any better with this crippled list we have at our disposal at present. If Bucks had a fully fit list, then we could judge, as far as I'm soncerned, the jury is out on him. If the Board decides hes not the guy to lead us, fair enough, but for chrissakes, losing four guys, v the dogs, that completely turned the game, even the dogs coach said that, Bucks cannot take a trick. Rolling Eyes

_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
kymbo5@yahoo.com.au 



Joined: 23 Mar 2014


PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:50 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.


I agree. We have the right coach, just not getting the right results yet but we will.

_________________
kymbo
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
The Boy Who Cried Wolf 



Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:18 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.


I agree. We have the right coach, just not getting the right results yet but we will.


Must be the injuries... there just is no other logical explanation? Lets give him a ten year contract extension, lets lock him in!!! and stay out the course!!! Logic... opps, sorry I mean hope, in it's purest form. I tip my hat to you both.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Medders85 



Joined: 31 May 2016


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:18 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting! Just read an article from Mick Mcguane saying Taylor Adams should replace Pendlebury as captain. He basically says that Pendlebury doesn't have the full backing of the playing group, and also That Pendlebury talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. He goes onto say that Taylor Adams stands for aggression, unity and stands for not suffering fools and is in the mould of Tony Shaw. He then said that when Taylor says something he will go and do it himself and others will follow. Very interesting indeed.

Imagine Pendlebury wouldn't be all too pleased to get demoted but ah well whatever is better for the side..... I'd prefer Mcguane to be coach over Buckley..... from memory these two used to clash!

_________________
DIDAK..... STILL WITH DIDAK..... OH YES OF COURSE HE IS SPECIAL THAT BOY!!!!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:48 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.

I'm not sure whether Pendlebury should be captain or not (but probably lean to the view that someone else should have a turn) but I don't know that I'm persuaded that Adams should be because McGuane says so. He isn't the guy I'd be asking to evaluate the character of respective potential captains, really. He was a favourite of mine but I did feel that, for a guy with all the talent he had, it was sad that he he'd played all his best football before he was 25. Save for the fact that he was a mostly underperformed, gifted player for the Club in a great era, is there some compelling reason to think that he has any better (or worse) understanding of what is required to prepare oneself and motivate team-mates than anyone else?

I should add, I suppose, that this probably isn't the right thread to be discussing McGuane's views about the captaincy.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
MatthewBoydFanClub 



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:02 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.


I agree. We have the right coach, just not getting the right results yet but we will.

I don't know how often I've said this, but AFL is a results based industry and if after an agreed finite period between the coach and the club, the team is not performing, then the club usually terminates his contract.
The right coach is the one who gets the team performing, not the one who is a wonderful bloke and a champion player who loves the club. Buckley is all of those things, but after five years, you need to question whether Buckley is the right person to coach the club.
I'm not saying Buckley's contract should be cancelled at the end of the season if we don't improve our ladder position, but it's right that the club should review all football positions at the end of the season.
If the club decides to terminate Buckley's contract at the time of review, then I support their decision for the simple reason that I support the club over the individual any day of the week. That's what I believe is club loyalty, not sticking with the individual over the interests of the club.
I learned a valuable lesson in the eighties when Hafey was sacked. I was so livid I didn't attend a Collingwood game for two years. That didn't achieve anything for me and after time, I came to realise that the club did the right thing in sacking Hafey. The club doesn't always do the right thing as when they almost went broke (nothing since comes even close to that). But most of the time, the club gets it right, so I'll just keep supporting whatever decisions the club make, until such time I stop following Collingwood.
My own feeling is that if we don't get to about 8-10 wins by the end of the season, Buckley's career as coach will hang in the balance (despite his contract for next year). Whatever the club decides to do, I will always love Buckley as a champion player and a champion bloke.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:56 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.


I agree. We have the right coach, just not getting the right results yet but we will.

I don't know how often I've said this, but AFL is a results based industry and if after an agreed finite period between the coach and the club, the team is not performing, then the club usually terminates his contract.
The right coach is the one who gets the team performing, not the one who is a wonderful bloke and a champion player who loves the club. Buckley is all of those things, but after five years, you need to question whether Buckley is the right person to coach the club.
I'm not saying Buckley's contract should be cancelled at the end of the season if we don't improve our ladder position, but it's right that the club should review all football positions at the end of the season.
If the club decides to terminate Buckley's contract at the time of review, then I support their decision for the simple reason that I support the club over the individual any day of the week. That's what I believe is club loyalty, not sticking with the individual over the interests of the club.
I learned a valuable lesson in the eighties when Hafey was sacked. I was so livid I didn't attend a Collingwood game for two years. That didn't achieve anything for me and after time, I came to realise that the club did the right thing in sacking Hafey. The club doesn't always do the right thing as when they almost went broke (nothing since comes even close to that). But most of the time, the club gets it right, so I'll just keep supporting whatever decisions the club make, until such time I stop following Collingwood.
My own feeling is that if we don't get to about 8-10 wins by the end of the season, Buckley's career as coach will hang in the balance (despite his contract for next year). Whatever the club decides to do, I will always love Buckley as a champion player and a champion bloke.


Agree, no one person at the club is sacrosanct. One of the first questions though should be "would a different coach have been able to achieve anything better during the period given the same circumstances?". If it's not an overwhelming or even a marginal "yes" then you are just implementing change for change sake.

If there is a better coach out there then I'm all for the club pursuing that individual. Based purely on records there are some fine candidates. Sadly they appear to be locked into contracts at other clubs so that leaves the plethora of untried candidates. What gives any confidence that they are better than Bucks?

In respect of Hafey, he'd actually lost the players. I'm not sure Bucks is in the same place. I'm also not sure Erwin and Cahill were that much of an improvement.


Last edited by jackcass on Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:37 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

jackcass wrote:
BucksIsFutureCoach wrote:
kymbo5@yahoo.com.au wrote:
Juggernaught wrote:
I'd like the club to add another year or two to his contract , lock him in i say.
Stay the course , Bucks leading an injury free list we will be serious contenders.


I agree. We have the right coach, just not getting the right results yet but we will.

I don't know how often I've said this, but AFL is a results based industry and if after an agreed finite period between the coach and the club, the team is not performing, then the club usually terminates his contract.
The right coach is the one who gets the team performing, not the one who is a wonderful bloke and a champion player who loves the club. Buckley is all of those things, but after five years, you need to question whether Buckley is the right person to coach the club.
I'm not saying Buckley's contract should be cancelled at the end of the season if we don't improve our ladder position, but it's right that the club should review all football positions at the end of the season.
If the club decides to terminate Buckley's contract at the time of review, then I support their decision for the simple reason that I support the club over the individual any day of the week. That's what I believe is club loyalty, not sticking with the individual over the interests of the club.
I learned a valuable lesson in the eighties when Hafey was sacked. I was so livid I didn't attend a Collingwood game for two years. That didn't achieve anything for me and after time, I came to realise that the club did the right thing in sacking Hafey. The club doesn't always do the right thing as when they almost went broke (nothing since comes even close to that). But most of the time, the club gets it right, so I'll just keep supporting whatever decisions the club make, until such time I stop following Collingwood.
My own feeling is that if we don't get to about 8-10 wins by the end of the season, Buckley's career as coach will hang in the balance (despite his contract for next year). Whatever the club decides to do, I will always love Buckley as a champion player and a champion bloke.


Agree, no one person at the club is sacrosanct. One of the first questions though should be "would a different coach have been able to achieve anything better during the period given the same circumstances?". If it's not an overwhelming or even a marginal "yes" then you are just implementing change for change sake.If there is a better coach out there then I'm all for the club pursuing that individual. Based purely on records there are some fine candidates. Sadly they appear to be locked into contracts at other clubs so that leaves the plethora of untried candidates. What gives any confidence that they are better than Bucks?

In respect of Hafey, he'd actually lost the players. I'm not sure Bucks is in the same place. I'm also not sure Irwin and Cahill were that much of an improvement.


FWIW, totally agree. I work in an industry that has had change purely for the sake of change (usually for political reasons) over the past 30 years and achieved bugger all in the process. And done FAR more damage to staff while doing it.

Also, I think you mean Mick Erwin.

_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine!
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail  
jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:46 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Lazza wrote:
FWIW, totally agree. I work in an industry that has had change purely for the sake of change (usually for political reasons) over the past 30 years and achieved bugger all in the process. And done FAR more damage to staff while doing it.

Also, I think you mean Mick Erwin.


Fixed, just going off memory and thought he and Cahill were the only 2 coaches between Hafey and Matthews.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Medders85 wrote:
Interesting! Just read an article from Mick Mcguane saying Taylor Adams should replace Pendlebury as captain. He basically says that Pendlebury doesn't have the full backing of the playing group, and also That Pendlebury talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. He goes onto say that Taylor Adams stands for aggression, unity and stands for not suffering fools and is in the mould of Tony Shaw. He then said that when Taylor says something he will go and do it himself and others will follow. Very interesting indeed.

Imagine Pendlebury wouldn't be all too pleased to get demoted but ah well whatever is better for the side..... I'd prefer Mcguane to be coach over Buckley..... from memory these two used to clash!


Pendles is our best player, but Adams would be a much better captain. You need someone with a bit of mongrel, someone who is a genuine warrior, as leader. After our poor performances these past few years, it would be a sign of a new harder, tougher approach if Adams was promoted to captain at season's end. I would love McGuane to have a role as an assistant, or opposition analyst at our club, as no-one ever had a better football brain than McGuane. However, his love of the punt was always problematic and probably cost him a coaching career. FWIW, I still reckon we'll do well with Bucks next year - though I'm pretty sure I said that last year. Confused
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

RudeBoy wrote:
Medders85 wrote:
Interesting! Just read an article from Mick Mcguane saying Taylor Adams should replace Pendlebury as captain. He basically says that Pendlebury doesn't have the full backing of the playing group, and also That Pendlebury talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. He goes onto say that Taylor Adams stands for aggression, unity and stands for not suffering fools and is in the mould of Tony Shaw. He then said that when Taylor says something he will go and do it himself and others will follow. Very interesting indeed.

Imagine Pendlebury wouldn't be all too pleased to get demoted but ah well whatever is better for the side..... I'd prefer Mcguane to be coach over Buckley..... from memory these two used to clash!


Pendles is our best player, but Adams would be a much better captain. You need someone with a bit of mongrel, someone who is a genuine warrior, as leader. After our poor performances these past few years, it would be a sign of a new harder, tougher approach if Adams was promoted to captain at season's end. I would love McGuane to have a role as an assistant, or opposition analyst at our club, as no-one ever had a better football brain than McGuane. However, his love of the punt was always problematic and probably cost him a coaching career. FWIW, I still reckon we'll do well with Bucks next year - though I'm pretty sure I said that last year. Confused


Agree on McGuane, very astute thinker on all things footy.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT + 10 Hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 6, 7, 8 ... 108, 109, 110  Next
Page 7 of 110   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group