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jatsad
Joined: 29 May 2010
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Can people stop using the following argument.
"If Grundy or Reid or Moore get injured, what have we got for depth".
If, if, if.
Take 3 of the best players out of any team and see how they go.
Also, people are worried about what Wells and Mayne are getting paid.
Honestly, who cares.
As long as on field they are good.
And with TPP going up next year, we have plenty in reserve to use next year.
Too much worrying going on.
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Jatsad - That is all |
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think better
Joined: 16 May 2005
Location: Adelaide
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All I know is that after this week I need a Bex and a good lie down
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I think therefore I think - I think |
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melliot
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo
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Meh.
I think it was average at best. But probably lower than I hoped. If Cloke = 76. Then most our remaining list = an average pick 60. Which is a blight on our list management team.
I think our list management stratagy is lost.
I think our list has gone backwards in 2017. I think we'll be around the 8 wins again. Only hope will be that injuries are significantly reduced and some of our existing low pick blossom. |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| melliot wrote: | Meh.
I think it was average at best. But probably lower than I hoped. If Cloke = 76. Then most our remaining list = an average pick 60. Which is a blight on our list management team.
I think our list management stratagy is lost.
I think our list has gone backwards in 2017. I think we'll be around the 8 wins again. Only hope will be that injuries are significantly reduced and some of our existing low pick blossom. |
But Hine our list manager is a genius.
I have read that for years and years and years.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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piedys 
Heeeeeeere's Dyso!!!
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Resident Forum Psychopath since 2003
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| Big T wrote: | | piedys wrote: | | Big T wrote: | | We should have replaced Witts with Nankervis. That was the mistake for mine. Tigers did well. |
Nankervis probably fancies his chances of taking over from Spudly Hampson sooner than later. He'd be in the same position as Witts was, playing 2nd banana at the Pies indefinitely. |
I really rate him Dyso as a potential forward as well, far better option than Cox or Witts. |
T, haven't seen any vision of him playing forward, so I can't say what his potential is, but will keep an eye on his progress at the Tiggers for comparative purposes.
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M I L L A N E 4 2 forever |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| jatsad wrote: | Can people stop using the following argument.
"If Grundy or Reid or Moore get injured, what have we got for depth".
If, if, if.
Take 3 of the best players out of any team and see how they go.
Also, people are worried about what Wells and Mayne are getting paid.
Honestly, who cares.
As long as on field they are good.
And with TPP going up next year, we have plenty in reserve to use next year.
Too much worrying going on. |
Hawthorn lost Buddy to Sydney and Roughead to illness, yet they were still able to perform at a high level through to the end of this season. Us on the other hand suffer a few injuries and the team falls apart. A bit of cover for both Moore and Reid, who have a history of leg problems, wouldn't have gone astray. We have no developing KPP's who can take over from Reid and White when they retire. So our lack of KPP depth is a worry which most of the football experts identified in their assessment of all the club trades. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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WE did OK, as best as most other clubs anyway, cant really complain, I'm pretty satisfied all round, actually.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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perthmagpie 
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga
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I must admit I was astounded by the willingness to let so much height be traded. But if you look there is a clear decision to bite the bullet and remove all the players who are poor kicks, or have no penetration in their kicking, move the ball on too slowly or have no attacking side to their game. We are clearly focussing on runners who have skilful disposal and looking to have a better transition game. Then we also tried to fix the xfactor problem with our forward line with WHE. Seems it was decided Williams was not going to be selected ahead of Ramsay, Scharenberg, Langdon, Sinclair or Smith. I worry we need to find another tall forward. Cox is not proven and White is flaky and nearing the end of his career. I think the clearing out of so many players is a sign a big gubby broom is going through the place.
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Magpies love pies(Lol) |
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| thompsoc wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Meh.
I think it was average at best. But probably lower than I hoped. If Cloke = 76. Then most our remaining list = an average pick 60. Which is a blight on our list management team.
I think our list management stratagy is lost.
I think our list has gone backwards in 2017. I think we'll be around the 8 wins again. Only hope will be that injuries are significantly reduced and some of our existing low pick blossom. |
But Hine our list manager is a genius.
I have read that for years and years and years. |
Tbh I havn't read it anywhere except in your posts.
I give the trade period a pass at 6.5 - 7 / 10
We came to the table with very little to play with and came out ever so slightly ahead.
A win is a win even if it won't turn us into a premiership team it's a step in the right direction.
Some of you guys really need to find some happiness in life.
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| September Zeros wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | melliot wrote: | Meh.
I think it was average at best. But probably lower than I hoped. If Cloke = 76. Then most our remaining list = an average pick 60. Which is a blight on our list management team.
I think our list management stratagy is lost.
I think our list has gone backwards in 2017. I think we'll be around the 8 wins again. Only hope will be that injuries are significantly reduced and some of our existing low pick blossom. |
But Hine our list manager is a genius.
I have read that for years and years and years. |
Tbh I havn't read it anywhere except in your posts.
I give the trade period a pass at 6.5 - 7 / 10
We came to the table with very little to play with and came out ever so slightly ahead.
A win is a win even if it won't turn us into a premiership team it's a step in the right direction.
Some of you guys really need to find some happiness in life. |
Don't worry about us SZ
I am a seasoned campaigner.
I can handle the swings and roundabouts.
I just finished a marvellous article on fishing that will be published soon.
Nix is just a side show to me.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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Nathan Schmook the journalist that wrote this piece and gave the ratings should hand back his media accreditation.
Rates WCE an A: recruited a 34 year old in Sam Mitchell (he will be good for them on-field for a year or so maybe) and Nathan Vardy, who has played 25 games in 7 years. Give me a spell. D at best.
Rates Brisbane an A-: recruited Jack Frost and lost Pearce Hanley. Yes they got some picks this year and next, but seriously A-. C at best.
Rates Essendon a C: in James Stewart, out Michael Hibberd. He cannot be serious. D at best.
Rates Geelong a D: in Zach Tuohy and Aaron Black, out Caddy, Kersten, Vardy and Smedts. Also, after not having a first round pick in 2015, they don't have a first round pick in 2016 and gave away their first round pick in 2017 for Zach Tuohy. Thus, they won't have a first round pick for three drafts. Wish all teachers marked as easily as him. F for mine.
Rates St Kilda an A+: in Jack Steele and Nathan Brown. Didn't even include Koby Stevens in his ins. Lost their first pick this year, but gained a first round pick next year. Steele and Stevens will be good for them, Brown not so much. B+ at best.
Rates Western Bulldogs a C: In Cloke, out Hamling, Hrovat and Stevens. Cloke will play VFL most of the year and they lost a premiership defender. D- at best.
Finally he rates Collingwood a D+: in Wells, Mayne, WHE and Dunn. Out Witts, Cloke, Brown, Williams and Frost.
So, we lost 5 players that were not in our best 22. I have seen some argue Brown was because he played 16 games. If you think he would have played if Langdon, Scharenberg and Reid (in the last part of the year) were fit you are kidding yourselves. We lost three players (Brown, Williams and Frost) whose disposal and decision making are below AFL standard. We lost Cloke, who had declined to such an extent that Jesse White was preferred in front of him, and whose goal kicking was extremely poor. It could be argued that Witts may come back to bite us because ruckmen mature at a later age, but we received points that will help us get Daicos and Brown.
We acquired 3 players that will be in our best 22 in Wells (elite kicking and leg speed), Mayne (elite forward pressure and heavily underrated) and WHE (a former number 4 draft pick, that has X factor to burn). We also acquired a defensive back up player, who is an upgrade on Frost and Brown.
Rating B-.
Last edited by mooretreloar on Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:10 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| melliot wrote: | Meh.
I think it was average at best. But probably lower than I hoped. If Cloke = 76. Then most our remaining list = an average pick 60. Which is a blight on our list management team.
I think our list management stratagy is lost.
I think our list has gone backwards in 2017. I think we'll be around the 8 wins again. Only hope will be that injuries are significantly reduced and some of our existing low pick blossom. |
This is a poor argument. What's Hawthorn's list worth when Lewis and Hodge were traded for almost nothing?
There's no way our list has gone backwards. And you can use your own argument to prove it. The players we let go (and we did) were not valued highly by the market. More importantly they weren't valued highly by us. They were, by and large, not first team players in 2016 and would have played less in 2017. When we brought in at least three players who will clearly be in our best 22 most weeks, how is that going backwards? There's no logic to that at all.
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Well done boys! |
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DT
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| inxs88 wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | Including the free agents I'll give it a 7/10. Our trading return was a little underwhelming but that's more to do with the crazy state of trading and this period in particular.
We lost one (combined) best 22 player and brought in three (Dunn will also play some). That's a win.
This trade period was about reconfiguring. Our team proved incapable of playing the style we wanted and we've looked to address all areas:
1. poor forward pressure (Mayne is elite)
2. poor forward entries (Wells is elite)
3. a defense that simply could not play the zoning style asked of it (out the slow and weak footed, in the mobile Dunn with a long leg)
4. lack of pace and flair (Wells and WHE both bring it)
So, while some will argue about the particular players brought in, the direction the club's taking is clear, and I think exciting. |
excellent review |
I agree. Gubby Allen has cleared out all the poor kicks. The Dogs style shows you need big midfield depth plus lots of run and we have that in spades. It also shows that you don't need two key tall forwards and backs anymore due to team defence and zones. We are heading down this path strongly and the improved disposal efficiency seen in the latter part of this year will stand us in good stead for 2017. Pies will play finals next year.
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Daicos, impossible angle ... Goal! |
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DT
Joined: 06 May 2007
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| mooretreloar wrote: |
Nathan Schmook the journalist that wrote this piece and gave the ratings should hand back his media accreditation.
Rates WCE an A: recruited a 34 year old in Sam Mitchell (he will be good for them on-field for a year or so maybe) and Nathan Vardy, who has played 25 games in 7 years. Give me a spell. D at best.
Rates Brisbane an A-: recruited Jack Frost and lost Pearce Hanley. Yes they got some picks this year and next, but seriously A-. C at best.
Rates Essendon a C: in James Stewart, out Michael Hibberd. He cannot be serious. D at best.
Rates Geelong a D: in Zach Tuohy and Aaron Black, out Caddy, Kersten, Vardy and Smedts. Also, after not having a first round pick in 2015, they don't have a first round pick in 2016 and gave away their first round pick in 2017 for Zach Tuohy. Thus, they won't have a first round pick for three drafts. Wish all teachers marked as easily as him. F for mine.
Rates St Kilda an A+: in Jack Steele and Nathan Brown. Didn't even include Koby Stevens in his ins. Lost their first pick this year, but gained a first round pick next year. Steele and Stevens will be good for them, Brown not so much. B+ at best.
Rates Western Bulldogs a C: In Cloke, out Hamling, Hrovat and Stevens. Cloke will play VFL most of the year and they lost a premiership defender. D- at best.
Finally he rates Collingwood a D+: in Wells, Mayne, WHE and Dunn. Out Witts, Cloke, Brown, Williams and Frost.
So, we lost 5 players that were not in our best 22. I have seen some argue Brown was because he played 16 games. If you think he would have played if Langdon, Scharenberg and Reid (in the last part of the year) were fit you are kidding yourselves. We lost three players (Brown, Williams and Frost) whose disposal and decision making are below AFL standard. We lost Cloke, who had declined to such an extent that Jesse White was preferred in front of him, and whose goal kicking was extremely poor. It could be argued that Witts may come back to bite us because ruckmen mature at a later age, but we received points that will help us get Daicos and Brown.
We acquired 3 players that will be in our best 22 in Wells (elite kicking and leg speed), Mayne (elite forward pressure and heavily underrated) and WHE (a former number 4 draft pick, that has X factor to burn). We also acquired a defensive back up player, whose is an upgrade on Frost and Brown.
Rating B-. |
The author's name has clearly been misspelt ...
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Daicos, impossible angle ... Goal! |
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mooretreloar
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| DT wrote: | | mooretreloar wrote: |
Nathan Schmook the journalist that wrote this piece and gave the ratings should hand back his media accreditation.
Rates WCE an A: recruited a 34 year old in Sam Mitchell (he will be good for them on-field for a year or so maybe) and Nathan Vardy, who has played 25 games in 7 years. Give me a spell. D at best.
Rates Brisbane an A-: recruited Jack Frost and lost Pearce Hanley. Yes they got some picks this year and next, but seriously A-. C at best.
Rates Essendon a C: in James Stewart, out Michael Hibberd. He cannot be serious. D at best.
Rates Geelong a D: in Zach Tuohy and Aaron Black, out Caddy, Kersten, Vardy and Smedts. Also, after not having a first round pick in 2015, they don't have a first round pick in 2016 and gave away their first round pick in 2017 for Zach Tuohy. Thus, they won't have a first round pick for three drafts. Wish all teachers marked as easily as him. F for mine.
Rates St Kilda an A+: in Jack Steele and Nathan Brown. Didn't even include Koby Stevens in his ins. Lost their first pick this year, but gained a first round pick next year. Steele and Stevens will be good for them, Brown not so much. B+ at best.
Rates Western Bulldogs a C: In Cloke, out Hamling, Hrovat and Stevens. Cloke will play VFL most of the year and they lost a premiership defender. D- at best.
Finally he rates Collingwood a D+: in Wells, Mayne, WHE and Dunn. Out Witts, Cloke, Brown, Williams and Frost.
So, we lost 5 players that were not in our best 22. I have seen some argue Brown was because he played 16 games. If you think he would have played if Langdon, Scharenberg and Reid (in the last part of the year) were fit you are kidding yourselves. We lost three players (Brown, Williams and Frost) whose disposal and decision making are below AFL standard. We lost Cloke, who had declined to such an extent that Jesse White was preferred in front of him, and whose goal kicking was extremely poor. It could be argued that Witts may come back to bite us because ruckmen mature at a later age, but we received points that will help us get Daicos and Brown.
We acquired 3 players that will be in our best 22 in Wells (elite kicking and leg speed), Mayne (elite forward pressure and heavily underrated) and WHE (a former number 4 draft pick, that has X factor to burn). We also acquired a defensive back up player, whose is an upgrade on Frost and Brown.
Rating B-. |
The author's name has clearly been misspelt ... |
Nope that's his name. |
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