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holdencaulfield
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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| watt price tully wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | holdencaulfield wrote: |
Yes it certainly is
All Liam Jurrah has to do is resolve to atone for his past outrageous behaviour and decide to become a useful member of society. He does not need backslappers and sycophants surrounding him |
Is that a new form of therapy or medical intervention? Can you explain the mechanics of how it works, exactly, from resolution to atonement (in the absence of backslappers and sycophants)? |
Yeh.
1.........
I repeat he does not need apologists, yes men, backslappers all over him. |
Pray tell HC,
Where in this thread has anyone been a "backslapper, yes-man or an apologist for Liam's behaviours?". |
Where in this thread have I said anyone here has? AFAIK there is only one person here who knows him personally. In any case Jurrah is unlikely to read this where he is now residing.
The backslapping occurs when he he goes to a footy game and is idolised for his football ability and no one dares mention his crimes.
When he says to a reporter "I am hoping to make it back to the AFL" and the reporter just laps it up. Does anyone here really believe that any AFL club would waste a Draft Pick on someone whose life has completely spiralled out of control? Port Adelaide declined to draft him and that was long before his history of bashing women
If he comes out of jail and stays out of trouble and stops bashing women then in about 3 or 4 years time someone may give him another go. (if he is lucky) |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Why shouldn't he be idolised for his football ability? It's really vital that people in prison maintain and develop their skills, and I don't see any point in people not acknowledging that Jurrah is a brilliant footballer, and that his personal life is a bit of a mess. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
As for getting back into the AFL, it doesn't look particularly likely, but who knows. Andy Krakouer turned his life around, perhaps Jurrah will too. Nobody's doubting that he has the talent for it.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Museman wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Museman wrote: | | David wrote: |
People often confuse making excuses with understanding the role of causality. Making excuses is saying that Jurrah's background justifies his actions. Nobody here is saying that. Understanding the role of causality, on the other hand, is saying that we need to understand that Jurrah's unbelievably tough upbringing has played a huge role in his problems staying on the straight and narrow, and that we might well be in a similar position if we shared his circumstances. That's why I feel empathy for him without in any way excusing or minimising his actions. |
WTF?  we might not be too David
And this is where your white knight attitude confuses the issue.
Plenty of people from varying racial and social backgrounds have had it tough to very tough to outright horrifying mate, and yet still manage to live a good honest life without straying off the straight and narrow...
While upbringing and social circumstance might prove to be a mitigating factor it does not warrant empathy for one once one chooses, (and that's a very important word because you still have a choice) to cross a certain line.
Where was your empathy for a teenage girl who's upbringing or circumstance may or may not have contributed to her innocently stupid or deeply racial slur? |
Oh gawd, Museman, not to pick on you specifically, but do you know how many basic factual and logical errors you just made in that post? Have you even stopped to think about the difference between choosing a flavour of ice-cream and feeling compelled to lash out to resolve feelings of extreme shame and anger?
For goodness' sake, have some comprehension of statistics if you want to make statistical claims, and have some comprehension of cognitive science if you want to make claims about the human brain. Has it ever even occurred to you that when comparing the psychiatries of two humans you're not actually comparing two identical entities? That's why science uses statistics and identical twin studies in order to investigate these things.
David, you're banging your head against a brick wall. This is a rinse and repeat story which obviously needs a new approach.
Trying to explain the difference between the personal stories we need to tell ourselves to create a sense of efficacy and control, and the broader scientific task of isolating causal factors in order to find solutions to complex problems, is apparently a futile effort in many cases. People struggle to fathom how those two levels of analysis can exist at the same time, and feel threatened by anything which challenges their own stories of efficacy and control.
The best analogy for understanding the magnitude of the task you face is something like this: You're trying to explain relativity and quantum physicsand the difficulty of unifying themto people who are still wanting to burn Galileo at the stake. |
ohh, here we go..... an "expert"
im sorry I appear to have walked into your office and pissed in your flowerpot.
please do point out for me my factual errors??
and the logical errors, point them out too....
and dreams, I been wondering why we have them for quite some time, it seems I've finally come across the person with the answers(and the irrefutable proof)
condescending much?
my inbox awaits. |
I think you'll find there is nothing more condescending on the planet than making pronouncements on other people's lives without having done the due diligence necessary to justify your claims.
You were happy enough to offer your pronouncements on the matter publicly, so forget your inbox. You explain the following to those of us unfortunate enough to have read your superficial nonsense:
1. You said:
"Plenty of people from varying racial and social backgrounds have had it tough to very tough to outright horrifying mate, and yet still manage to live a good honest life without straying off the straight and narrow."
- Which people? How many of them? Which conditions were they diagnosed with, exactly? Which environmental contexts were they in, exactly? What personality resources did they have, exactly? What definitions and statistical data do you have concerning them which gives any meaning at all to your claims, and what argument do you have which demonstrates the relevance of these claims to the person of Liam Jurrah?
2. You said:
"While upbringing and social circumstance might prove to be a mitigating factor it does not warrant empathy for one once one chooses, (and that's a very important word because you still have a choice) to cross a certain line."
- Why does it "not warrant empathy"? Is there some scientific law pertaining to this? Did Jesus tell you it doesn't warrant empathy? Or did you just make that up?
- What do you mean by "choice"? Do you mean like choosing a flavour of ice-cream? Or choosing to sleep for more than two hours a night? Or choosing to write your post in English rather than Tagalog? Or choosing to be a lawyer rather than an Olympic gymnast?
- What is this "certain line"? Where is it and how did you calculate it?
But it's not just you, by any means. It could be any number of posts above. |
You have not pointed out a single error, want to try again?
You have simply pointed out that I didn't supply detail.
Inbox was to spare people the off topic rant continuing.
And the dreams?
Last edited by Museman on Sat May 10, 2014 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| Once will do. |
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holdencaulfield
Joined: 12 Apr 2013
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| David wrote: | Why shouldn't he be idolised for his football ability? It's really vital that people in prison maintain and develop their skills, and I don't see any point in people not acknowledging that Jurrah is a brilliant footballer, and that his personal life is a bit of a mess. These things aren't mutually exclusive.
As for getting back into the AFL, it doesn't look particularly likely, but who knows. Andy Krakouer turned his life around, perhaps Jurrah will too. |
You make some valid points.
However the Krakouer comparison is not really relevant as he made one big mistake and got severely punished for it. He did his time and then got drafted into the WAFL where he starred and virtually won a grand final off his own boot. He then got drafted by the Pies where he again starred. He worked hard and deserved all his success. If he had gone around bashing and grogging on and generally spiralling out of control after he got out of jail no one would have touched him with a barge pole,
The sad thing is Jurrah was a brilliant footballer and will be forever remembered as the bloke who could have had a great and illustrious career but instead pissed it against a wall.
Last edited by holdencaulfield on Sat May 10, 2014 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Yes he did, didn't he. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Museman wrote: | You have not pointed out a single error, want to try again?
You have simply pointed out that I didn't supply detail.
Inbox was to spare people the off topic rant continuing.
And the dreams? |
That's the equivalent of claiming goblins exist, and then insisting everyone will agree with you once they see your evidence. Your whole post is urban nonsense.
The fact is, you haven't thought through your definition of "choice" and you don't know what "choice" is in neurological and psychiatric terms; you don't know what LJ's condition is; you don't have any data pertinent to this (undefined) condition and others with said (undefined) condition from which you can draw any meaningful conclusions on the effects of this undefined condition and how easy they are to remedy for certain people with certain available resources; you have no considered justification for not providing empathy to him; and you have no evidence others don't care about the victims of his behavioural issues.
What you've got is gut feelings and inherited assumptions, which is par for the course and would be fine if you granted them the weight they deserve.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Museman wrote: | You have not pointed out a single error, want to try again?
You have simply pointed out that I didn't supply detail.
Inbox was to spare people the off topic rant continuing.
And the dreams? |
That's the equivalent of claiming goblins exist, and then insisting everyone will agree with you once they see your evidence. Your whole post is urban nonsense.
The fact is, you haven't thought through your definition of "choice" and you don't know what "choice" is in neurological and psychiatric terms; you don't know what LJ's condition is; you don't have any data pertinent to this (undefined) condition and others with said (undefined) condition from which you can draw any meaningful conclusions on the effects of this undefined condition and how easy they are to remedy for certain people with certain available resources; you have no considered justification for not providing empathy to him; and you have no evidence others don't care about the victims of his behavioural issues.
What you've got is gut feelings and inherited assumptions, which is par for the course and would be fine if you granted them the weight they deserve. |
You are proving to be a big mouth the screams little.
Factual and logical errors......PLEASE? |
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What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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LJ's just a loser. The less said about him the better. The next headline will be "Former AFL player, LJ dead at 28."
_________________
Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Museman wrote: | You have not pointed out a single error, want to try again?
You have simply pointed out that I didn't supply detail.
Inbox was to spare people the off topic rant continuing.
And the dreams? |
That's the equivalent of claiming goblins exist, and then insisting everyone will agree with you once they see your evidence. Your whole post is urban nonsense.
The fact is, you haven't thought through your definition of "choice" and you don't know what "choice" is in neurological and psychiatric terms; you don't know what LJ's condition is; you don't have any data pertinent to this (undefined) condition and others with said (undefined) condition from which you can draw any meaningful conclusions on the effects of this undefined condition and how easy they are to remedy for certain people with certain available resources; you have no considered justification for not providing empathy to him; and you have no evidence others don't care about the victims of his behavioural issues.
What you've got is gut feelings and inherited assumptions, which is par for the course and would be fine if you granted them the weight they deserve. |
And you've provided no evidence that museman has provided no evidence considering you also haven't taken into consideration of what constitutes evidence from a factual and philosophical derp..point and also that....derp derp derp derp derp.... |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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What a massive load of nonsense over the last few pages.
The "choice" I believe Museman was referring to, was the one between right and wrong, not ice cream flavours or choosing a suitable career.  (please correct me if I'm off the mark there Museman).
The rest is just garbage.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| King Monkey wrote: | What a massive load of nonsense over the last few pages.
The "choice" I believe Museman was referring to, was the one between right and wrong, not ice cream flavours or choosing a suitable career. (please correct me if I'm off the mark there Museman).
The rest is just garbage. |
Why not ask PTID what he meant by his question or statement related to the use of the term "choice".
What you've noted was not what PTID was referring to - IMO.
I'm sure a few will agree there is a lot of garbage however, they might disagree where the refuse is specifically located.
Bin night is Wednesday night.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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^Monday night in my locale.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| King Monkey wrote: | What a massive load of nonsense over the last few pages.
The "choice" I believe Museman was referring to, was the one between right and wrong, not ice cream flavours or choosing a suitable career. (please correct me if I'm off the mark there Museman).
The rest is just garbage. |
Nah, you're on the money KM.
But that's not what PTID is after, what he wants is a philosophical debate on free will, thus his over analysis of my use of "choice".
I worded my sentence wrong and the nit pickers found the hole.
I should have worded it that "He/we at least have the illusion of choice"
I'm going to exercise my illusion and leave it alone, it's an age old unresolved debate fought by people with far superior weapons for the fight than me. |
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Didaksgoal 
Joined: 12 Mar 2004
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| watt price tully wrote: |
Bin night is Wednesday night. |
Rubbish!!!.........It's Thursday night! 
Go the Pies! |
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