The quality of our list

[highwireact]

I dont want to offend anyone, but a lot of people seem to think we have a great list.
Personally I think they are mostly good, but not outstanding.
And since I'm having a slow work day, I thought I'd rate our players.

1. Buckley, Nathan - 10, the only real top quality player we have
2. Burns, Scott - 9, been good for a long time but getting slower and older
3. Clement, James - 9, very dependable and looks like hes doing it easily
4. Cloke, Cameron - 7.5 havent seen enough, but he looks like he can play. Will probably get better.
5. Cloke, Jason - 6.5 good footballer, just lacks pace, decision making, and skill
6. Cloke, Travis - havent seen him
7. Cole, Richard - 7.5 strong player, but not overly skillful or talented
8. Davidson, Tom - havent seen him, missed his only game
9. Davis, Leon - 6.5 can be great, but usually isnt
10. Didak, Alan - 7.5 skillful left foot
11. Fraser, Josh - 8.5 gets better every year
12. Hall, Brent - havent seen him
13. Holland, Brodie - 7 probably used as a tagger too much, but he's not brilliant anyway
14. Johnson, Ben - 8.5 fast, determined and very good.
15. King, David - havent seen enough of him.
16. Licuria, Paul - 7.5 pretty quick, tries hard but skills arent great
17. Lockyer, Tarkyn - 8.5 or at least he was that good
18. Lokan, Matthew - 6 pretty quick
19. Lonie, Ryan - 7.5 should and could be higher, but is a bit soft
20. Maxwell, Nick - havent seen enough
21. Morrison, Billy -
22. Morrison, Chad - 8 was impressed with his second half of the season last year. good pick up
23. O'Bree, Shane - 7 nothing at all oustanding
24. Prestigiacomo, Simon - 7.5 useful, but lacks skill
25. Richards, Guy - 7.5 looks pretty good from what I've seen
26. Rocca, Anthony - 8.5 can be a 10 on his good days but usually just very useful
27. Rowe, Julian - 7.5 havent seen enough but hes at least this good so far.
28. Shaw, Brayden -
29. Shaw, Heath -
30. Shaw, Rhyce - 6.5 good pace, reasonable skills, no ticker and very sloppy
31. Swan, Dane - 7 tries hard, can play, but lacks skill
32. Tarrant, Chris - 9 like rocca, can be great, but is wasted at full forward
33. Wakelin, Shane - 8 very useful but not overly brilliant
34. Walker, Tristen - 7 big gump that seems to get better every year
35. Williams, Andrew - 6.5 started well with us, but lost it somewhere
36. Woewodin, Shane - 8 can really play, good skills, but got no ticker

[Nath]

Ohhh no, you said Woey has no ticker......watch the insults fly!

Personally think that the one's you haven't seen are the ones that I'm quite looking forward to seeing. The Shaw boys are extremely talented, Morrisson will play this year, Maxwell debuted well. I'm confident we have a better list than 2004.

[chalky]

Geez, you've rated the whole team above average ie +5 out of 10!!
Personally I think we are even better than that.
Obviously I disagree with most of your assessments but applaud your time and effort.
What you failed to bring to our attention was that unlike tennis or cricket where individual assessments carry weight, football is a team game. As we've already proved in the past (read 2GFs) individual scorecards carry less significance at Collingwood.
Mate, if you broke down each team in the AFL the same way you would see that in relative terms Collingwoods list is, at the very least, competitive compared to others, at best top 5 (port-bears-stk-geel?).
Go through melbs list. Bloody hell how did they make the finals??!!
Barring disaster, constant injuries, suspension etc - Collingwood will have a successful year, expect finals footy 2005!! Crap list and all

[highwireact]

I actually think i overrateda couple in there.
Overall I reckon our list rates about 7.5.
Our best team on the park rates about 8, but its a versatile team, that MM doesnt often throw around enough and can play above that.

In comparison, I'd rate Brisbane around 9, with the capacity to play at 9.5, but they are getting older.
PA around 8.5, StK about 8.5 and geelong around 8.

I honestly think we should make the top 6 next year, but we wont go too far in the finals without a bit of luck, and by that I mean injuries, suspensions and the ball just rolling our way a little.

[Johnson#26]

We are a very good side at best. When everything clicks, we are fine. Confidence is the key to this team, and with a good Wizard cup and first few rounds of the Premiership season, I have no doubt we can give ourselves a shot at glory.

hwa, with your ratings, you said Buckley is our only top quallity player - what about Burns and Tarrant? And I don't think Lokan deserves the rating of six - four is probably a better option IMO. Ditto O'Bree - 7 is very rich for him.

But then again, that's your opinion, and that's fine.

[highwireact]

I dont think O'Bree is that bad, but he will have to perform well to get a game if we have Chad Morrison and also Caracella in the team.

I am also interested in the others that havent played, and even the new guys we got this year. A lot was said about Travis Cloke, and although he might not play this year, he is touted as far better than his brothers, which is a fair effort as even though many dont like Jason Cloke, he lacks everything a footballer needs, pace, athleticism and skill, but IMHO is still fairly useful. Cameron looked impressive in a few games, so we'll have to wait and see.

My uncle gets to all the Willi games and he is a big fan of the Shaws, and a couple of others, some of whom are no longer on our list, but the one player he reckons will not make it is Billy Morrison. He says he cant understand why we got him, and thinks he will be dropped at the first opportunity. I'm not so sure as I've read a couple of good things about him, but I havent seen him play.

[highwireact]

You're right buckley is no longer a 10, I'd say a 9 and possibly even less now, but I think this year he might surprise a few, he can still play a bit.

I'm probably alone here but I dont rate Lica all that highly. Sure he runs a lot, works hard, but he's not an outstanding player and even though he won a couple of copelands, and he did have a great finals series in 2002, he rarely is the reason we win matches, and often contributes to us losing them. He often gets beaten easily in contests on the wing when he should win them, and his disposal is often rather ordinary. He's a runner, a damn good one, but no great footballer in my opinion. He is better than O'Bree, but a long way from Bucks and Burns.

Cameron Cloke impressed me a couple of times last year and I think he will be a good player, plus my Uncle probably is to blame as he reckons he's pretty damn good. Time will tell.

[stoid]

I had to stop reading this once I read that Jason Cloke -, lacks pace, decision making, and skill – but is a good footballer? What the &%%&??

Then I read:
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
So I thought it figures.

[highwireact]

Hey i was bored and had nothing else to do.

I'm sorry to offend anyone but I have been reading these forums for about a year, and just never posted.

I've been a pies supporter all my life... its not my fault I was born into the god forsaken club and have actually spent the last couple of months defending the club on another website.

Maybe I'll go back there and post the same thing....

[bwphantom]

No stay here high wire...just because people disagree doesn't mean we don't look forward to another post from you.

It shows we have thinkers out there and I think that is good.

Keep it up.

[Johnson#26]

[Pants & Rowdy]

Forever the optimist, I would say our list is perfectly blended for a grab at the flag next year. Yes I honestly think we can shake it again given our mix of youth and experiance. We are not the most talented but we are not a mile from it. This year injuries took their toll, in particular on bucks so to say he is at the end is obvious but dont go on last years dual hamstrings rips. it cost him 8 weeks in the sun and about another 4 getting match fit...

Pre-season is crucial for our psyche, so I hope we get off to a flyer.

My big project and a guy we should sqeeze in the side is C Cloke.We need to focus on giving him some licence up forward as I think he will be more of a viable option in the future the Davidson or Morrison at this point.

I've posted it before and I'll post it again but this is my 05 side.Yes it reluctantly includes Caracella...Who i think will take cam's spot in the fwd line.Hope Iam wrong but otherwise it would be too top heavy.

B: Cole - Presty - Wakelin
HB: Morrison - Walker - Clement
C: Johnson - Didak - Lonie
HF: Buckley - Rocca - Frazer
F: Burns - Tarrant - Caracella(C/Cloke)*
Foll: Richards - Holland - Licuria
InC: Wowewodin - Lockyer - Davis - J Cloke.
Emerg: CCloke - Rowe - Obree - Maxwell
Lokan - King - Williams - Swan

The key to that side is depth and Micks short term pain this year will mean less hardships in season 05 and beyond...

Guys we will be not far from it next year.

[stoid]

I thought I’d have a look at this this morning to see if you responded. Look I don’t have a problem with your opinion, it’s just that when giving your opinion don’t contradict yourself. What I mean is that you wrote Jason Cloke -, lacks pace, decision making, and skill – so how can you then say “but is a good footballer.”

By all means write what you want, but as a reader, I also have a choice to not like it or how it’s put, i.e contradicting yourself.

[Joel]

Tess Bucks was hampered by injury in 2004. While he may be coming closer to reitirement, I think if his body holds up, he will be fine. Don't forget he won the Brownlow only one season ago.

[Johnson#26]

Agreed Joel. We cannot wrtie him off after just one season. In my opinion, he has 2-3 good years left in him - as he says he is feeling very fresh ATM, and the hamstrings may have given him time to rest other little niggles.