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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| Post subject: What else is wrong with this story? |  |
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| Quote: | Boys charged with Xmas Eve gang rape of girl, 12
THREE boys have been charged over the gang rape of a 12-year-old girl on Christmas Eve in Western Australia's Kimberley region.
WA police allege the boys, aged 11, 13 and 14, had sex with the girl while she was drunk and asleep at a house in Kununurra, in the state's Top End.
Kununurra Detective Senior Constable Alan Goodger today confirmed the trio had been charged with sexual penetration of a child under 13.
The 11-year-old and the 14-year-old have been granted bail while the 13-year-old has been remanded in custody.
The boys are due to appear in the Kununurra Children's Court on February 19. |
http://www.news.com.au/national/boys-charged-with-xmas-eve-gang-rape-of-girl-12/story-e6frfkvr-1225814756244
Rape is rape, but ffs, she's a 12 year old girl and she was DRUNK???!!!
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond
Last edited by Proud Pies on Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Tell me more about your of respect for volunteers who [he or she]are[he or she] capable of this but there are of people who wouldn't be able to do it. |
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Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| Post subject: Re: What else is wrong with this story? | |
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| Proud Pies wrote: | | Quote: | Boys charged with Xmas Eve gang rape of girl, 12
THREE boys have been charged over the gang rape of a 12-year-old girl on Christmas Eve in Western Australia's Kimberley region.
WA police allege the boys, aged 11, 13 and 14, had sex with the girl while she was drunk and asleep at a house in Kununurra, in the state's Top End.
Kununurra Detective Senior Constable Alan Goodger today confirmed the trio had been charged with sexual penetration of a child under 13.
The 11-year-old and the 14-year-old have been granted bail while the 13-year-old has been remanded in custody.
The boys are due to appear in the Kununurra Children's Court on February 19. |
http://www.news.com.au/national/boys-charged-with-xmas-eve-gang-rape-of-girl-12/story-e6frfkvr-1225814756244
Rape is rape, but ffs, she's a 12 year old girl and she was DRUNK???!!! |
Welcome to the Kimberley.
look up the website Kimberley Echo, sadly this 'aint nothing new.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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A nasty combination of fuckedupedness.
12 year old girl drunk, 11 year old rapist.............. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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That boys that age even knew what to do bewilders and depresses me. I agree with the posts above, It's hard to know where to start here.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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They used to 'steal' kids so this didn't happen to them. Wonder if Rudd will apologise 
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Skids wrote: | | They used to 'steal' kids so this didn't happen to them. Wonder if Rudd will apologise |
Because of course if you're going to get raped, you might as well trade up and get raped by a white man.
Needless to say, the intractability of a problem does not justify any and every response to it, particularly a vilely ignorant response rooted in delusions of racial superiority such as the forcible removal of children from their families without the need to establish due cause and without the impartial expertise required to make such an enormous call on someone else's life.
NB: Edited for clarity. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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| pietillidie wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | They used to 'steal' kids so this didn't happen to them. Wonder if Rudd will apologise |
Because of course if you're going to get raped, you might as well trade up and get raped by a white man
NB: Edited for clarity. |
A rather silly comment.
Take a drive through ; Fitzroy Crossing , Halls Creek or Kununurra, then give an educated statement. If you don't feel like taking some of the kids you see home, I'd be amazed.
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Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Skids wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | They used to 'steal' kids so this didn't happen to them. Wonder if Rudd will apologise |
Because of course if you're going to get raped, you might as well trade up and get raped by a white man
NB: Edited for clarity. |
A rather silly comment.
Take a drive through ; Fitzroy Crossing , Halls Creek or Kununurra, then give an educated statement. If you don't feel like taking some of the kids you see home, I'd be amazed. |
I think I'll quote our original comments again in full rather than allowing you to conveniently clip my post:
| pietillidie wrote: | | Skids wrote: | | They used to 'steal' kids so this didn't happen to them. Wonder if Rudd will apologise |
Because of course if you're going to get raped, you might as well trade up and get raped by a white man.
Needless to say, the intractability of a problem does not justify any and every response to it, particularly a vilely ignorant response rooted in delusions of racial superiority such as the forcible removal of children from their families without the need to establish due cause and without the impartial expertise required to make such an enormous call on someone else's life. |
Your original comment mocked the apology given to the Stolen Generations. In order to hold this position one has to somehow maintain that the forcible removal of a child from her family and culture, the placing of the child in often abusive institutions, and systematic efforts to erase the child's identity - all without due process and due psychiatric oversight - somehow amounts to both good will and the valid treatment of fellow citizens.
I presume you're unaware of the rate of sexual abuse inflicted upon the Stolen Generations, hence you may not have picked up on the irony in my comment about being raped by white men. But beyond sexual assault, which of course was the topic of the original post, the greater assault on the Stolen Generations, as I understand it, was the destruction of communal, familial and individual identity.
I reiterate my original view that the intractability of a problem does not justify any and every response to it. I can assure you I won't be conflating my deep sorrow for the difficulties facing Aboriginal communities with delusions of cultural superiority masquerading as good intentions.
As for driving around Aboriginal settlements to formulate an "educated statement", peering further at the problem from the outside will do little to help me understand what it is like to be Aboriginal. This is the type of superficial "education" which led to the policies inflicted upon the Stolen Generations. I would rather take advice from Aboriginals themselves and committed professionals who actually live and work with Aboriginals on a daily basis. In this regard I am fortunate to be close to people who have long worked in WA Aboriginal communities; they don't need my ignorance further confounding the situation. I believe the most useful thing I can do at this time is to support their work and the premise that, no matter how long it takes, we have to stand by the Aboriginal community in its quest to redefine itself in the contemporary world. If the opinion of Aboriginals matters, the apology to the Stolen Generations was a critical part of that process.
Edit: further expanded. |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Skids wrote: | | http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/bad-parents-to-lose-kids-for-18-years/story-e6frg13u-1225815531249 |
Interesting proposal. I bet it gets howled down.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Any effort to emulate Aboriginal communal kinship responsibility arrangements is no doubt a good thing. As I understand it, many Aborigines accept assistance raising children from those who are willing to form some kind of kinship with the community. But from the limited information given in the article on the role of guardians, this does not seem to be what the policy has in mind. Moreover, what percentage of "drug-addicted and dysfunctional parents" from such communities will be able to overcome their problems in two years? In other words, the result is a statistical foregone conclusion unless the plan is accompanied by serious solutions to the health problems facing the entire Aboriginal community, including adults.
The comments under the article may reveal more about the policy than the article itself. The joy at being able to direct "legitimate" rage at adult Aborigines is palpable: we can't hate the kids, because that would be frowned upon, but we can hate the parents because they're of a legal hating age. It's as if compassion magically evaporates once a child's age clicks over from 17 to 18. Nothing like using children as a human hate shield.
But that's just at a glance and I'm no expert in the field. I will be interested to chat about this with a mate of mine who is. |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| pietillidie wrote: | Any effort to emulate Aboriginal communal kinship responsibility arrangements is no doubt a good thing. As I understand it, many Aborigines accept assistance raising children from those who are willing to form some kind of kinship with the community. But from the limited information given in the article on the role of guardians, this does not seem to be what the policy has in mind. Moreover, what percentage of "drug-addicted and dysfunctional parents" from such communities will be able to overcome their problems in two years? In other words, the result is a statistical foregone conclusion unless the plan is accompanied by serious solutions to the health problems facing the entire Aboriginal community, including adults.
The comments under the article may reveal more about the policy than the article itself. The joy at being able to direct "legitimate" rage at adult Aborigines is palpable: we can't hate the kids, because that would be frowned upon, but we can hate the parents because they're of a legal hating age. It's as if compassion magically evaporates once a child's age clicks over from 17 to 18. Nothing like using children as a human hate shield.
But that's just at a glance and I'm no expert in the field. I will be interested to chat about this with a mate of mine who is. |
There is nothing new here with this law. Victoria's had it since 2005, NSW even longer. Its called a Permanent Care Order. it applies to both whites and Aboriginals and far more often its applied to white parents. The reality is some of these parents, aboriginal and white, just don't change or incapable of it. Two years is enough time to test the parents capability to achieve a level of permanent behaviour change or at least genuinely begin to change. I don't know about WA but here we have an aboriginal placement principle whereby wherever possible children are placed ideally with kin, or within the community.
Permanent Care orders provide a level of stability and normality that these kids - often very young - really need. Home return is no alternative for these kids as the parents lack of behaviour change just creates more abuse damage. And these orders are not easy to get. Usually the parents are lawyered up to the eyeballs (courtesy of Legal Aid) and contest and appeal even if they have no hope evidentially of winning the case. The only winners are the lawyers whose fees provide a down-payment on the new swimming pool or the next trip to Provence. Such cases can drag on for months and at times the outcome is by no means certain in favour of DoHS either.
Ideally the children will have access every two months with the parent (if the parents want it), sometimes in controlled circumstances.
Its easy to posit utopian solutions to these situations but the reality is here and now. These kids are in need of care and stability now, the parents dysfunctional behaviour is entrenched, home return is not an option. At least Permanent Care orders provide stability and security and give a chance of breaking cycles of inter-generational abuse that otherwise will continue to be perpetuated.
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad".
Last edited by rocketronnie on Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| That can seem like a long time. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | Any effort to emulate Aboriginal communal kinship responsibility arrangements is no doubt a good thing. As I understand it, many Aborigines accept assistance raising children from those who are willing to form some kind of kinship with the community. But from the limited information given in the article on the role of guardians, this does not seem to be what the policy has in mind. Moreover, what percentage of "drug-addicted and dysfunctional parents" from such communities will be able to overcome their problems in two years? In other words, the result is a statistical foregone conclusion unless the plan is accompanied by serious solutions to the health problems facing the entire Aboriginal community, including adults.
The comments under the article may reveal more about the policy than the article itself. The joy at being able to direct "legitimate" rage at adult Aborigines is palpable: we can't hate the kids, because that would be frowned upon, but we can hate the parents because they're of a legal hating age. It's as if compassion magically evaporates once a child's age clicks over from 17 to 18. Nothing like using children as a human hate shield.
But that's just at a glance and I'm no expert in the field. I will be interested to chat about this with a mate of mine who is. |
There is nothing new here with this law. Victoria's had it since 2005, NSW even longer. Its called a Permanent Care Order. it applies to both whites and Aboriginals and far more often its applied to white parents. The reality is some of these parents, aboriginal and white, just don't change or incapable of it. Two years is enough time to test the parents capability to achieve a level of permanent behaviour change or at least genuinely begin to change. I don't know about WA but here we have an aboriginal placement principle whereby wherever possible children are placed ideally with kin, or within the community.
Permanent Care orders provide a level of stability and normality that these kids - often very young - really need. Home return is no alternative for these kids as the parents lack of behaviour change just creates more abuse damage. And these orders are not easy to get. Usually the parents are lawyered up to the eyeballs (courtesy of Legal Aid) and contest and appeal even if they have no hope evidentially of winning the case. The only winners are the lawyers whose fees provide a down-payment on the new swimming pool or the next trip to Provence. Such cases can drag on for months and at times the outcome is by no means certain in favour of DoHS either.
Ideally the children will have access every two months with the parent (if the parents want it), sometimes in controlled circumstances.
Its easy to posit utopian solutions to these situations but the reality is here and now. These kids are in need of care and stability now, the parents dysfunctional behaviour is entrenched, home return is not an option. At least Permanent Care orders provide stability and security and give a chance of breaking cycles of inter-generational abuse that otherwise will continue to be perpetuated. |
I forgot you worked in this field RR; thanks for the information.
What you say is fair enough. I can agree with practical solutions on the ground that are genuine and not manifestations of underlying distortions. But do we have any data yet on the effectiveness of the policy you mention? I'd love the data to prove my suspicions wrong.
I have to say though I'm very wary of reductionist panaceas posing as practical solutions simply because I come across them all the time. Often these things are put forward as "real world" solutions, but inevitably when you dig beneath the surface they are actually utopian ethnocentric ideologies cloaked in a discourse of pragmatics. Kowtowing to the racist vote while pretending to be a practical "doer" is a pretty old political card trick.
Personally, I'm familiar with a case where the guardian did the right thing and spent years trying to understand the culture, community and extended family from which the child is from and became accepted by the family as a kinsman, so it's great to see the policy you mention prioritising familiarity with the culture; that's a step forward, for sure.
But if after all this time the wider community still doesn't know the difference between say hunter-gatherer minimalism and "laziness" (whatever the latter means), and if there is no consensus of will, then all this is just so much political manoeuvering. Socio-economic physics trumps good ideas every time. |
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