Gillard will pay for this! So will the Indies and Greens!

[jack_spain]

A good piece by Terry McCrann this morning. It shows what an incredible deceit the result of the last election has wrought.

Didn't THAT bitch in Canberra say at the last election campaign that there'd be no carbon tax?

[HAL]

Nothing lasts forever. You sound like a scientist.

[Culprit]

Just when I thought the Liberals were on a downhill slide with them talking about reintroducing "Workchoices” we now have Gillard set to introduce a new carbon tax. It’s utter madness.

Jack, Howard said no to the GST. At least could not lose and did not lose the next election. He had a fall guy in Meg Lees.

You cannot sell a Tax no matter what you call it to Australians.

[Deja Vu]

Jack, I hardly think referring to the PM of this country as a "bitch" is respectful of the office that she holds.

You can have your political opinion but how about a little respect for this country's leader?

[Nick - Pie Man]

Aww, poor Jacky doesn't like paying his taxes.

[Dr Pie]

Remind me, Jack, where did you get your PhD in environmental science from? Your arguments on Carbon and climate change put you at odds with about 95% of the world's scientists.

Terry McCrann, who did economics at Monash about a million years ago when I was an undergraduate, has no scientific qualifications, but he has a lifetime experience as a loyal retainer to Rupert Murdoch. He might be a good source to quote in defense of Capitalism or Media monopolies but he knows as little about environmental science as you do.

How about your understanding of politics? You don't need any academic qualifications to realise that a Government in a coalition, especially one that it did not expect before the elections is going to have to make compromises. Most people with a modicum of common sense understand that. Julia made a promise on carbon taxes on the assumption that she would control the Government. Neither she nor Abbott won enough votes to control the Government and the price of support from the Greens and the Independents was a carbon tax. It's not rocket science.

[sq3]

I do think that we do need to do a better job with the Environment and a Carbon Tax is a good way of making the companies more accountable.

It will come at a cost - we will all be hit with higher prices from products from these companies.

What concerns me more are the jobs that will be lost as some of these companies move offshore as they will not be a level playing field - imports from countries with lessor or no carbon tax will replace the locally made products.

These companies will then either downsize or move offshore - both ways affecting local jobs.

I do think it is a brave thing for Gillard to do - but it may just get Shorten in the job quicker if it backfires.

[HAL]

What about after its done?

[Culprit]

The thing about this Carbon tax is we now have a difference in the major parties, oh that is unless Turnbull gets back in as leader.

[stui magpie]

I am going to need to read up on how this thing will work once the details come out. The little I get at the moment, I don't like.

I take Pietillidies comments in another thread, but I still have some issues with the concept. If anyone is able to factually counter my following thoughts I'd appreciate it.

As I understand it, they will effectively set a price on carbon output. $x per tonne, and charge organisations. Theoretically, the more inefficient and polluting an organisation is, the more it gets slugged, the costlier it's products become, market forces such as competition will force it to produce less carbon to save money.

Nice in theory. Devil will be in the detail.

I can't buy electricity from Tassie where it's all hydroelectric, I'll have to buy it from someone who burns coal. I'm stuffed, along with all other Victorians aren't I? The electricity companies will simply pass on the costs to us, pushing up electricity bills. No harm to the companies, just to the users.
The government will return some of the money they collect to low income earners, so they won't carry the charge, industries that pay for power will just pass on the charge to the consumer, so who gets burned here?

Fuel? Petrol, Diesel, LPG. Some people can ride a bike or walk to work or catch public transport. Some of us can't. So we pay more money and the incentive on to stop polluting is where?
Trucks and Trains that transport our food all over the country use Diesel. So food becomes more expensive.

Exactly how is this going to work practically?

Whole different discussion is whether reducing Carbon will actually do anything anyway when you have 5 billion people all breathing out CO2 every day and chopping down forest as fast as they can in the 3rd world countries. Reducing pollution is a good thing, but this does tend to have the hallmarks of pissing in the ocean and wondering why the depth doesn't vary. But anyway, that's a different discussion.

[Pies4shaw]

[jack_spain]

[Black_White]

Oh Tony!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5QXblcJAr4

9 minutes in.
Tony says "why not" and then explains exactly how he would implement a carbon tax, not that he would of course, but his ideas sound awfully like the current model.
Maybe he should support his own ideas.

[jack_spain]

The whole issue is this.

The climate is changing that's always been the case.

But strange isn't it that the same scientists that predicted a new ice age in the 1970s suddenly jumped on the global warming bandwagon when it started to be funded.

The volcano in Iceland emitted as much carbon into the atmosphere in four days as an entire year's worth of human carbon emissions. What are these experts going to do, ban volcanoes from erupting?

No one has successfully argued why such a minute proportion of our atmosphere (0.054%) can be causing all these climatic changes. The rise in carbon levels (in real terms miniscule) is merely following the rises in surface temperatures.

We are going through a period of temperature rises (but it's been warmer than this in the Middle Ages). Why do you think Greenland got it's name? It wasn't always icy.

The Greens want to blame humans for these climate changes, but the fact is that temperatures closely follow the activity of the sun. There's nothing we can do about these rises in temperature except to do what successful species always do to survive and evolve - ADAPT.

I believe the climate is changing, but it is NOT anthropogenic climate change.

The best thing that could happen to out these cadre of compliant scientists is for the climate to suddenly cool for a few decades. Then they'd be exposed as the fakers they presently are.

A carbon tax is the least efficient way of doing anything.

1. Because it's not a real problem.

2. Because the rest of the world doesn't care about it.

3. Because governments are the most inefficient means of bringing real and effective social change. Gillard will collect our taxes and waste it.

[HAL]