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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Blues worse than Bombers |  |
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In my opinion, unless it can be shown that Essendon deliberately gave their players performance-enhancing drugs, then they shouldn't lose premiership points.
It seems to me that at the most, the AFL will be able to prove poor governance and bringing the game into disrepute. That deserves punishment and a heavy fine, loss of draft picks and possible sacking of responsible officials would be just.
Carlton DELIBERATELY cheated the salary cap. They were fined and lost draft picks.
Essendon was negligent and naive, but deliberate cheating probably didn't occur.
Taking away premiership points is a huge step and is not appropriate in this case. I'd hate to see Carlton get a free pass into the finals because of a punishment to Essendon. |
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Stupied
Joined: 14 Mar 2013
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Last I heard, there was enough circumstantial evidence to prove that at least four players had been given TB4 and herexalin, both banned under S2 provision.
There is so much rumour surrounding this though that the truth is almost impossible to determine without access to the ASADA report.
Taking premiership points is perfectly reasonable imo. It's not like Essendon are a legit premiership threat anyway this year... |
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Brenny
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
Location: Westpac Centre
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In my opinion a fine is useless as somebody will write them a cheque to pay for it.
Draft picks is where the punishment comes!
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Heeeeeeeeeeeeeey, we want some Bayley! |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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^ yep, draft picks.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I don't agree that Carlton was worse, but I do agree that fines are useless.
FFS, Melbourne was fined by the AFL for tanking, and the AFL is basically paying the fine itself.
Premiership points for a team in finals contention is a hard hit, as are draft picks. Kick them out of this years finals and make them start 2014 on negative 40 points as well as no first round draft pick for 2 years.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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They just can't be rewarded for their performances this year.
Their fitness and endurance is a result of cheating.
If they play in a final I will absolutely abandon this game.
Draft picks would be just but for me loss of all points this year is a must.
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | They just can't be rewarded for their performances this year.
Their fitness and endurance is a result of cheating.
If they play in a final I will absolutely abandon this game.
Draft picks would be just but for me loss of all points this year is a must. |
What a daft idea!
You want to reward them by giving them a no-games-lost humiliation-free exit from this year's finals? Whatever for? Much, much, much better to let them suffer the humiliation of a cruel defeat at teh hands of a Port or a Richmond (or an absolute flogging by us). That will hurt them a lot more.
Second, any hasty attempt to inflict points on them as a result of a preliminary report wil go straight to the Supreme Court and the Bombers will win. No question. If we do not provide procedural fairness, they will take it to the Supreme Court and get an injunction in about 10 minutes.
Third, if the AFL is smart enough to play the long game (and it is), to dot all the "i"s and cross all the "t"s, provided only that the evidence is there, Essendon will go down for it.
If we have a points penalty, it will apply in 2014, or even 2015, not 2013 - unlike a 2013 penalty which would be no penalty at all 'coz they ain't good enough to win a final yet, and 2014-15 is right smack bang in the middle of their premiership window.
Sweet!
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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I loathe the scum far, far ,far more than the Essen dumb dopers. !!
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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| Post subject: Re: Blues worse than Bombers | |
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| Harrysz wrote: |
Essendon was negligent and naive, but deliberate cheating probably didn't occur.
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Yes it $£$%^%%$ did.
The ASADA/AFL investigation found that no documentation existed that showed who took what.
What organisation fails to record such vital medical information
If the Chinese swimming team was accused of taking PED's and the excuse was they forgot to record who took what we would expect them to be banned. They would NOT be considered negligent and naive and blaming a rogue element would be laughable.
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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nulla
Joined: 05 Apr 2003
Location: In My Reg Grundys
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| Post subject: Re: Blues worse than Bombers | |
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| Harrysz wrote: | In my opinion, unless it can be shown that Essendon deliberately gave their players performance-enhancing drugs, then they shouldn't lose premiership points.
It seems to me that at the most, the AFL will be able to prove poor governance and bringing the game into disrepute. That deserves punishment and a heavy fine, loss of draft picks and possible sacking of responsible officials would be just.
Carlton DELIBERATELY cheated the salary cap. They were fined and lost draft picks.
Essendon was negligent and naive, but deliberate cheating probably didn't occur.
Taking away premiership points is a huge step and is not appropriate in this case. I'd hate to see Carlton get a free pass into the finals because of a punishment to Essendon. |
Deliberate cheating did occur if they were under the impression that by giving their players a substance via an injection that it would enhance their performance.
Would any coach, team manager or staff doctor give approval for injections to be administered to their players just for the sake of it.... sorry do not buy it.
They went out of their way to make gains quickly... just like Lance Armstrong, Ben Johnson and others have done.
Heater went to the tab for a bit of fun and paid the penalty and Maxy never kicked the first goal anyway
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I have a lazy eye and I think it is now spreading throughout the rest of my body |
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Bucks5
Nicky D - Parting the red sea
Joined: 23 Mar 2002
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The way Essendon are playing they will be lucky to play in one final so a loss of premiership points will effectively equal a one match suspension, and they should be able to comfortably afford a multi-million dollar fine.
The punishment needs to be a lot more. Player suspensions for six months during the 2013 season, a 2-year suspension of all key staff involved (Hird, Reid and Thompson) and no draft picks for 2 years should be the minimum penalty.
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How would Siri know when to answer "Hey Siri" unless it is listening in to everything you say? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Tannin wrote: | | Breadcrawl wrote: | They just can't be rewarded for their performances this year.
Their fitness and endurance is a result of cheating.
If they play in a final I will absolutely abandon this game.
Draft picks would be just but for me loss of all points this year is a must. |
What a daft idea!
You want to reward them by giving them a no-games-lost humiliation-free exit from this year's finals? Whatever for? Much, much, much better to let them suffer the humiliation of a cruel defeat at teh hands of a Port or a Richmond (or an absolute flogging by us). That will hurt them a lot more.
Second, any hasty attempt to inflict points on them as a result of a preliminary report wil go straight to the Supreme Court and the Bombers will win. No question. If we do not provide procedural fairness, they will take it to the Supreme Court and get an injunction in about 10 minutes.
Third, if the AFL is smart enough to play the long game (and it is), to dot all the "i"s and cross all the "t"s, provided only that the evidence is there, Essendon will go down for it.
If we have a points penalty, it will apply in 2014, or even 2015, not 2013 - unlike a 2013 penalty which would be no penalty at all 'coz they ain't good enough to win a final yet, and 2014-15 is right smack bang in the middle of their premiership window.
Sweet! |
I like the way you're thinking ! And it'd be soooo much more crushing to make them play 2014 knowing that they are effectively playing for nothing.
Wipe out their 2014, two years draft suspension to lay waste to their 2016/2017, require Hird to step down, burn Windy Hill and sow salt into their fields. Then merge them with Melbourne in the TFL.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Harrysz
Joined: 15 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne
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Are you guys serious?
Take away Essendon's points for 2014?
Great! Who would come to the Anzac Day match if Essendon had nothing to play for.
Loss of draft picks is a serious penalty.
Maybe suspend Hird if that's warranted, but taking away premiership points would be a huge mistake.
I say again, Carlton deliberately cheated the salary cap.
I doubt that it will be proved that Essendon deliberately cheated.
As said by others, if points are taken away this will finish up in Court and will drag on forever.
Let's get rid of this mess!
Punish them sure, but don't go over the top.
And all you Nicksters who want Essendon to lose their points, do you really want to see Carlton get to the finals? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Harrysz wrote: | Are you guys serious?
Take away Essendon's points for 2014?
Great! Who would come to the Anzac Day match if Essendon had nothing to play for.
Loss of draft picks is a serious penalty.
Maybe suspend Hird if that's warranted, but taking away premiership points would be a huge mistake.
I say again, Carlton deliberately cheated the salary cap.
I doubt that it will be proved that Essendon deliberately cheated.
As said by others, if points are taken away this will finish up in Court and will drag on forever.
Let's get rid of this mess!
Punish them sure, but don't go over the top.
And all you Nicksters who want Essendon to lose their points, do you really want to see Carlton get to the finals? |
I can't wait to see Carlton make it to the finals. They're competitive enough to last oh, a quarter before adopting the foetal position en masse on the HFF in a bid for mercy, with their entire match committee impaled, Vlad-style, on the posts at each end.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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^ I'm not a fan of wiping off any points for 2014 or beyond. It's something that can be taken advantage of, in a way that could set them up really well for the following year. For example, taking a no risk approach by trialling different players and strategies without fear of losing. Have a look at what the Storm did the next year, win a Premiership!
Draft exclusion for the next 2 to 3 years would be the best punishment imho, it would cripple them, no doubt.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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