| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
|
|
|
 |
David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
A mess that Russia played a substantial role in causing.
Would Assad still even be in power if it weren't for Russian support?
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Would there be a civil war without US backing of 'rebels'? The mess in Libya shows there's no good guys when it comes to messing with the Middle East, but Russia standing by an ally is no worse than the USA standing by Israel. (Of course Russia having their only Med naval base in Syria may have something to do with it).
My point is that as soon as Russia starts attacking ISIS they are getting pushed back, which hasn't happened through over a year of random air strikes from Western powers (including us). Blind Freddie could see the only positive end to this mess was an Assad victory. I spoke to Syrian expats before ISIS popped up and they firmly supported Assad against the 'Rebels' who they said were nothing more than religious zealots destroying their country. Seems the Australian government has finally reached the same conclusion
| Quote: | | Foreign Minister Julie Bishop told The Weekend Australian there was an emerging consensus that the Assad regime would be likely to be pivotal in any attempt to fortify the Syrian state and prevent further gains by the terror group Islamic State, also known as ISIS or Daesh. |
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/foreign-affairs/assad-part-of-solution-in-syria-julie-bishop-signals-policy-change/story-fn59nm2j-1227544502722 - paywalled, couldn't find another link. |
|
|
|
|
Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Credibility zero. Putin fanboy. Not for the first time.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Then what for? |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | I spoke to Syrian expats before ISIS popped up and they firmly supported Assad against the 'Rebels' who they said were nothing more than religious zealots destroying their country. Seems the Australian government has finally reached the same conclusion. |
Could they possibly have been Alawite regime supporters? 
If an Assad victory is now the only means of defeating ISIS, then that just shows the extent to which the opposition has been decimated by Assad's forces and their Russian backers. For a while, the (non-Islamist) opposition were strong enough to put the regime on the brink of losing power. This was a strong movement that could have had the capacity to establish a workable democracy, at a time when ISIS were just another small faction. It's only through their effective stalemate with the government that ISIS has been able to flourish in the north-east, both in terms of raw numbers and credibility (they have been able to position themselves as the only functional opposition to Assad, and to an extent they have a point).
Look, obviously that's history and there's nothing much we can do about it now. But barbarism comes in degrees, and honestly I'm not even sure that ISIS is that much worse than the Assad regime at the end of the day. Whoever is forced to live under either has drawn the short straw.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Tannin wrote: | | ^ Credibility zero. Putin fanboy. Not for the first time. |
If I disregarded every post on here due to the posters internalised biases I'd maybe be left with a few posts from David, the odd DtM zinger and HAL.
FWIW, now that you've brought him up, here's Putin being interviewed on it.
https://www.facebook.com/60minutes/videos/10153637639124395/ |
|
|
|
|
3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
|
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
While I have a soft spot for Russia, that doesn't extend to the Soviet Union. |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | While I have a soft spot for Russia : |
Me too  St Petersburg was fantastic - never got to Moscow at the time don't think I'll bother now!
_________________
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
|
|
|
|
3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: |
While I have a soft spot for Russia. |
That may explain why your so eager to get into bed with them! |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 3.14159 wrote: | | Wokko wrote: |
While I have a soft spot for Russia. |
That may explain why your so eager to get into bed with them! |
She was Ukrainian. |
|
|
|
|
Jezza
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
|
| Post subject: | |
|
This is an extremely complex issue and Western governments cannot make up their minds on who to target (whether that's Assad or ISIS). They don't want to see the Assad regime thriving but on the other hand attempting to defeat ISIS may very well benefit Assad at the same time. Russia along with Iran have been long-time allies of the Assad regime so I don't find this move by Putin all that surprising, but it will definitely cause backlash especially amongst Chechens who despise Assad and Putin.
Putin has certainly caught many off-guard with the bold move of supporting Assad's forces on the ground but whether it will hold back ISIS or not remains to be seen. Most western nations primarily led by the US have been eager to see ISIS destroyed but there is a level of reluctance to support Russia's decision to go into Syria for obvious reasons.
In regards to what David has posted I highly doubt the secularists amongst the Syrian opposition would have defeated Assad without the backing of Islamist factions such as the Islamic Front for example. When you're talking about non-Islamist groups are you talking about the Free Syrian Army or other groups David?
Also an article on The Guardian seems to suggest that Russia's forces are deployed in areas where ISIS isn't a threat but it's actually the so-called moderate rebels who are fighting Assad on the ground and therefore they may indirectly help ISIS unintentionally. My guess is that Russian forces will be deployed in North Western and Western Syria (in cities like Aleppo) and Damascus (the capital of Syria in Southern Syria).
| Quote: | Russian troops in Syria could end up helping Isis, report claims
Analysts say involvement underlines contradictions of Kremlin as troops are in areas where they are likely to fight groups opposed to Isis
The deployment of Russian troops in Syria could end up helping Islamic State as they have been sent to areas where they are most likely to fight other groups opposed to Isis, according to a new report.
The Royal United Services Institute (Rusi) report comes ahead of a US-Russian summit meeting at the UN on Monday, when Barack Obama will question Vladimir Putin on the intention behind Russias deepening military involvement in Syria, according to US officials.
The Iranian president, Hassan Rouhani also in New York for the UN general assembly meeting rejected suggestions that his country was operating in concert with Russia against Isis. I do not see a coalition between Iran and Russia on fighting terrorism in Syria, Rouhani said. |
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/russia-troops-syria-could-helping-isis-report
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Jezza, I suspect that some of the non-ISIS/Al-Qaeda Salafist groups would have had to take their part in any multiparty democracy - this is the Middle East we're talking about. If the French and British democratic systems can accommodate Le Pen and the BNP, I don't think it's impossible that a functioning Syrian parliament could have gotten by with a few whack-jobs on the cross-benches. And if they didn't want to play ball, well, what can you do.
But as for the rest, there is (and certainly was) a sizeable chunk of the Syrian Opposition who weren't Islamist in the generally understood sense. That's not to say that they weren't pro-theocracy, necessarily, though a lot most certainly weren't.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
|
|
|
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
