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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Goddamn, how dare a government look to review a tax system that badly needs reform.
| Quote: | A crackdown on superannuation concessions received by the wealthy appears to be the next major tax reform, with both sides of politics declaring they are looking to tackle the issue.
A Treasury discussion paper on tax, released by the government on Monday, advocates broadening the GST, which is currently 10 per cent and reducing income and company taxes.
While Treasurer Joe Hockey talked down the prospect of an increase in the GST level, he did signal the Coalition may look to cut back on generous superannuation concessions that favour the rich. |
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tax-reform-super-concessions-for-the-wealthy-in-the-firing-line-20150330-1maxz5.html
And in regard to the GST, IIRC no federal government can change the GST without agreement from the states, so lets not behave as though the release of a discussion paper asking for submissions was the tabling of a draft bill proposing tax increases.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Has anyone put negative gearing on the agenda yet?
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I saw something today where the comment was that Negative Gearing wasn't the problem it was the tax rate when people sell the asset and avoid capital gains that was the problem. So it's on the agenda.
Here, read for yourself.
http://bettertax.gov.au/
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Negative gearing is the problem!
You borrow money to buy a rental property but the rental doesn't cover the cost of the interest on the loan
(plus repairs/improvements, even the interest on the borrowing is deductible!!!, council rates etc etc).
Meanwhile the value of the place is increasing.
When the property is sold all those past loses are counted against the Capital gains the property would have made and are written off by the ATO.
http://www.mortgageport.com.au/loans/negative-gearing/
| mortgage report wrote: |
Consider the following scenario:
Mike buys an investment property for $400,000 and pays $24,000 in interest and $12,000 on maintaining the property in any given financial year.
The property rents at $390 per week ($20,280 pa)
He has a loss before tax of $15,720 ($36,000-$20,280).
Mike earns in excess of $180,000 per year, which places him the highest tax bracket (46.5%).
He can now deduct this loss from his taxable income, and reduce his tax bill by $7,310 (46.5% of $15,720).
There are also other potential deductions for depreciation that can lower the holding cost still further. |
This would be fine if it was a home that was lived in by the owner (the great Aussie dream) but it isn't.
With enough negatively geared houses a person can pay virtually no TAX!
Owning an investment property (or several) is a luxury "lifestyle choice available only to the well off " and every Aussie tax payer is paying for it!
Ending diesel rebates for foreign mining companies is another place tax reform is urgently needed!
Nice link Stui, it would have been better if they'd used coloured crayons and elephant stamps!
Last edited by 3.14159 on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| Culprit wrote: | | Get ready for a rise in the GST. The sucker campaign has begun. |
Yep - Keep making the Richer Richer and Poorer Poorer.
Good Job the Idiot Libs are doing
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I am Da Man |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Instead of bitching about others getting an unfair advantage, why not take advantage of the legal opportuity yourselves? It's actually an incentive to people who aren't well off to invest.
(And does anyone know how to get scum of the earth tenants who have wrecked your previously beautifully kept house, out? No, course not cos the scum of the earth are a protected species!)
Cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| 3.14159 wrote: | Negative gearing is the problem!
You borrow money to buy a rental property but the rental doesn't cover the cost of the interest on the loan
(plus repairs/improvements, even the interest on the borrowing is deductible!!!, council rates etc etc).
Meanwhile the value of the place is increasing.
When the property is sold all those past loses are counted against the Capital gains the property would have made and are written off by the ATO.
http://www.mortgageport.com.au/loans/negative-gearing/
| mortgage report wrote: |
Consider the following scenario:
Mike buys an investment property for $400,000 and pays $24,000 in interest and $12,000 on maintaining the property in any given financial year.
The property rents at $390 per week ($20,280 pa)
He has a loss before tax of $15,720 ($36,000-$20,280).
Mike earns in excess of $180,000 per year, which places him the highest tax bracket (46.5%).
He can now deduct this loss from his taxable income, and reduce his tax bill by $7,310 (46.5% of $15,720).
There are also other potential deductions for depreciation that can lower the holding cost still further. |
This would be fine if it was a home that was lived in by the owner (the great Aussie dream) but it isn't.
With enough negatively geared houses a person can pay virtually no TAX!
Owning an investment property (or several) is a luxury "lifestyle choice available only to the well off " and every Aussie tax payer is paying for it!
Ending diesel rebates for foreign mining companies is another place tax reform is urgently needed!
Nice link Stui, it would have been better if they'd used coloured crayons and elephant stamps! |
Bloody dud public servants.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | Instead of bitching about others getting an unfair advantage, why not take advantage of the legal opportuity yourselves? It's actually an incentive to people who aren't well off to invest.
(And does anyone know how to get scum of the earth tenants who have wrecked your previously beautifully kept house, out? No, course not cos the scum of the earth are a protected species!)
Cheers |
I'm all for people getting into the housing market if they want to; they just shouldn't get free money for it. It seems pretty straightforward to me.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Is bank interest free money?
It's not free money, it's an investment, and it can all go to shot very easily you know! As many bad landlords there is, there's plenty of shit tenants. If there are no rental properties, (and why would you do it unless you get a tax break? Why risk it?) where do all the folks who choose not to buy live? Lots of public housing? Who pays for it?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | It's not free money |
Yes it is. Every other poor bastard is paying for it. What other sort of free money is there?
| think positive wrote: | | where do all the folks who choose not to buy live? |
Choose not to buy? Choose? As if. The vast majority don't "choose" not to buy, they have no bloody choice, and the reason they have no bloody choice is that rich bastards who already own one house can get free money rorted out of the taxpayer to buy a second house, and a third one, and so on. Eleven billion dollars worth of free money. And that is what has pushed the price of housing up to insane levels. If you don't already own a house, it is very, very difficult to buy one 'coz you have to compete against government subsidised rich cnuts leeching off the poor bastard who pays his own taxes and can't claim his one and only house as a deduction the way that rich people can claim their two or three or seven.
Don't give my this "choice" bullshit.
| think positive wrote: | | where do all the folks who choose not to buy live? Lots of public housing? Who pays for it? |
Take away the negative gearing rort and lots of them will be able to buy 'coz prices will be lower. Lots lower. And they will have more money in their pockets 'coz they aren't having to pay extra tax to subsidise all the rich cnuts buying five houses at taxpayer expense. And rents will be very likely be cheaper too because of the lower cost of housing.
But if all that fails (and it won't fail), then you can use some small fraction of the eleven billion dollars negative gearing costs - say 20% of it - to set up a great big two billion dollar public housing scheme. You can spend that two billion dollars on public housing - hell, you could spend it on beer and dancing girls if you want to - and we'd still be nine billion dollars better off.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | It's not free money |
Yes it is. Every other poor bastard is paying for it. What other sort of free money is there?
| think positive wrote: | | where do all the folks who choose not to buy live? |
Choose not to buy? Choose? As if. The vast majority don't "choose" not to buy, they have no bloody choice, and the reason they have no bloody choice is that rich bastards who already own one house can get free money rorted out of the taxpayer to buy a second house, and a third one, and so on. Eleven billion dollars worth of free money. And that is what has pushed the price of housing up to insane levels. If you don't already own a house, it is very, very difficult to buy one 'coz you have to compete against government subsidised rich cnuts leeching off the poor bastard who pays his own taxes and can't claim his one and only house as a deduction the way that rich people can claim their two or three or seven.
Don't give my this "choice" bullshit.
| think positive wrote: | | where do all the folks who choose not to buy live? Lots of public housing? Who pays for it? |
Take away the negative gearing rort and lots of them will be able to buy 'coz prices will be lower. Lots lower. And they will have more money in their pockets 'coz they aren't having to pay extra tax to subsidise all the rich cnuts buying five houses at taxpayer expense. And rents will be very likely be cheaper too because of the lower cost of housing.
But if all that fails (and it won't fail), then you can use some small fraction of the eleven billion dollars negative gearing costs - say 20% of it - to set up a great big two billion dollar public housing scheme. You can spend that two billion dollars on public housing - hell, you could spend it on beer and dancing girls if you want to - and we'd still be nine billion dollars better off. |
Say they do sew up that loop hole, what's the next thing the blue collar savers should give up? Should I flog my second hand JetSki so the gambler / dole bludger / shoe collector/ drag racer up the road can start on his deposit?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^TP, the economy is much bigger than just housing!
This is what I said in a post the DTM the other day: The only political responsibility citizens have in my view is to try to build wealth/generate revenue/improve their lives/live well in a way which benefits themselves and the country as a whole at the same time. Negative gearing is one of the activities which fails the second test.
As an extreme example, I can fully understand someone who, say, works in a service job at a pokies venue to pay the rent and clothe the kids. But just imagine the self delusions of a Packer, a bloke who was handed an unrivaled position as a young man, only to somehow justify putting it all into a casino empire. That's what you call a real own goal in the humanity stakes.
All I would say to you is that the economy is huge, and you clearly have the business intelligence and investment skills to enter other parts of it!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| pietillidie wrote: | ^TP, the economy is much bigger than just housing!
This is what I said in a post the DTM the other day: The only political responsibility citizens have in my view is to try to build wealth/generate revenue/improve their lives/live well in a way which benefits themselves and the country as a whole at the same time. Negative gearing is one of the activities which fails the second test.
As an extreme example, I can fully understand someone who, say, works in a service job at a pokies venue to pay the rent and clothe the kids. But just imagine the self delusions of a Packer, a bloke who was handed an unrivaled position as a young man, only to somehow justify putting it all into a casino empire. That's what you call a real own goal in the humanity stakes.
All I would say to you is that the economy is huge, and you clearly have the business intelligence and investment skills to enter other parts of it! |
Fair enough. By the way, the bad tenent is in our old house, it was never negatively geared, and it was my stupid sentimentality that got us in this position. We did take advantage long ago of the tax breaks, and since it was, and still is legal, I don't apologise for it. Not interested in going that way again, I'm too emotional for it. But I won't degenerate people who do it, because while its legal, it may be their only avenue to get ahead. I'm not talking people with 5 houses in Kew, I'm talking the guy in hoppers who buys a run down house and rents it out, all fully financed.
Lots of things are legal. Doesn't make them the right moral choice. Ask the chicken who never steps out of a cage her whole life.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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I have three empty houses near me, purchased by Chinese Citizens.  The sellers were happy as they got top dollar. Where are the squatters? Move in and live for free. |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | Say they do sew up that loop hole, what's the next thing the blue collar savers should give up? Should I flog my second hand JetSki so the gambler / dole bludger / shoe collector/ drag racer up the road can start on his deposit? |
1: It's not a "loop hole", it's a rort, and a bloody enormous one.
2: It's not available to any blue collar people bar a tiny, tiny minority. Only people who are either already wealthy and a piddling little handful of others on the make are able to take advantage of it.
3: It's blue collar people who pay for it - all the other Australians, 20 million of them - through higher taxes and reduced services. This is money that should be used for something useful like train lines and hospitals and reducing the deficit and lowering tax rates. Instead, it's paid to a handful of wealthy property investors who already own their own houses and get paid government money to buy up other houses they aren't even living in.
4: It doesn't benefit blue collar people. It only benefits wealthy people. The reason you pay so much tax is that a small number of other, mostly much wealthier people can and do get out of their obligations through scams like negative gearing. They aren't pulling their weight, so you have to work harder and pay more tax and save less. It's not helping blue collar people get ahead, it's pushing them bback.
5: Your children (and mine) are looking at a future where they will never be able to buy a house because negative gearing has grossly inflated the prices. This is intergenerational theft on a grand scale.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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