Shawry's top 10 Pies.

[Donny]

Of players he's seen, Tony Shaw rates his top 10.

1. Daics
2. Carmen
3. Bucks
4. Pendles
5. McKenna
6. Thompson
7. Millane
8. Brown
9. W Richardson
10. Swanny.

[kymbo5@yahoo.com.au]

I love Daics, called his name out hundreds of time when kicking socks about the house but I rate Buckely higher as a player.

[Flashman]

Didn't see Carmen play but I have a hard time believing he was a better player in his 60 odd games for us than Buckley, Pendlebury, Brown, Swan etc have been. I appreciate he had massive ability but the stats don't bare out that he was even close to the true greats of our club.

Still it's Shawry's list and I can't fault any of the other names he has on it.

[Mugwump]

Interesting list and order. I wonder what his criteria were ? It seems to be the ability to win a match through an individual effort, rather than consistent quality. Carman could be magnificent, but he could also go missing for an entire game. I saw all of his list, and I'd agree with Daicos at (1), but I'd have Buckley a clear second, and probably Len Thompson (3). Swanny - as evidenced by his Brownlow - seems to me a better player than Darren Millane, even if Pants was a better leader.

McKenna is an interesting case. He was a great footballer in terms of sheer effectiveness in a good side, but his skills were limited. His great gifts - a fast lead and a deadly accurate kick - were all that was needed in a side that had the likes of Thompson, Price, Greening and the Richardsons in it. He was weak overhead and not especially good on the ground. But he could kick 16 goals a game. I guess it depends on your criteria.

[Rev]

Pretty excited to think that two of that top ten have Father-Son players available to us coming up!

[duke750]

I would have included John Greening, purely because of the extraordinary skill he brought to the games he played for us. Over the years I have revised my opinion of Peter McKenna purely because of the number of goals that he kicked. Phil Carmen was flawed but he had extraordinary skill and was a true match winner.

For what it's worth, here are my 10:

Peter Daicos
John Greening
Nathan Buckely
Len Thompson
Peter Moore
Tony Shaw
Wayne Richardson
Billy Picken
Phil Carmen
Dane Swan

[Jezza]

I'm a new generation Magpie, but from what I've heard from others, I suspect Phil Carmen is too high. He was a naturally gifted footballer but I'm not sure he was a club great. The fact that he got himself recklessly rubbed out for the 1977 Grand Finals still burns for many older Collingwood supporters.

John Greening is another that should be included. He's revered by many as being the best player of the 70s despite his career being tragically cut short to due to terrible circumstances that everyone will be well-aware of.

Out of those lists, I've seen Bucks (my favourite player as a kid), Swanny and Pendles and I only saw a little of Gavin Brown but toward the end of his career when he was past his best.

[HAL]

Do you mean your name is John?

[Pies4shaw]

Shaw isn't alone in his assessment of Carman. Lou Richards, who saw quite a few Collingwood greats, described Carman as the most exciting player ever to play for Collingwood.

I think what those of you who didn't see Carman play may not appreciate is that he was the best centreman of his era but happened to play CHF and FF because he could play anywhere. When you look at his stats, you should bear in mind that his exceptional goals-per-game average was achieved by a player who was only a fill-in forward and played a lot of his footy a long way from the goals.

It's also probably difficult to appreciate what he was expected to do. So, eg, he played the 1978 finals series unfit after injuries that basically kept him out of the second half of the season. Thus, his game against Hawthorn in the losing qualifying final that year looks a bit average, until you appreciate that his 7 kicks and 3.2 came when he was brought on in the second half because he was on one leg and wasn't fit enough to start the full match. His game against Doull the following week kept the greatest defender of the era (and a few of his mates) so thoroughly occupied that Twiggy, Kink and Moore were able to do the damage. His aerial skill that day made the Flying Doormat, at the height of his powers, look completely out of his depth and that was no easy thing to do.

Also, the carping about 1977 needs to stop. Carman got them into that Grand Final, almost on his own. The blame for a pathetic last quarter in a Grand Final by a team that gives up a 27 point three-quarter time lead to a side that only managed to kick 9 goals for the entire match scarcely rests in any sane universe with someone who was not on the ground that day. 20 other guys played that quarter and most of them failed to fire a shot. It's typical of Collingwood's capacity for self-deception in that unsuccessful era that the failure to lose the unloseable should have been blamed on someone who didn't play. That was probably the defining idiocy of the "Hafey Era".

[Pies4shaw]

DP

[Bob Sugar]

[Presti35]

[Bob Sugar]

[Presti35]

^ And not even in Mike Sheeans top 50 of all time.

[SwOOsh]

Just a note Shaw specifically stated 'most talented' pies he's seen. Talent doesn't necessitate playing 250+ games and being a great leader etc. No arguments with Daics #1 here.