View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
stui magpie wrote: | ^
The odds of the remaining hostages still being alive is slim to none and Israel knows it. The most likely outcome is that they were killed by Israeli bombs, some would have been murdered by Hamas once they were no longer useful. |
not that they ever cared. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
^
Hamas certainly didn't and as for Israel, realistically, once you're captured you're considered Dead Unless. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
The hostages are and always were leverage, and they can only be used as leverage while they’re alive. They’re obviously Hamas’s primary bargaining chip right now, so I assume they are invested in keeping them alive and that the vast majority who’ve died were killed by IDF bombs. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
Post subject: | |
|
^No doubt, the hostages are starving, along with the rest of the population in Gaza. Israel is responsible for the deaths of the hostages, along with the deaths of at least 40 000 Palestinians (when those missing/buried under rubble) are included. _________________ Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
im not sure im convinced Hamas took em any more!
the response is so over the top it just seams a little too convenient. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
What'sinaname
Joined: 29 May 2010 Location: Living rent free
|
Post subject: | |
|
^ but Hamas did attack Israel resulting in 1,200 deaths, the same Hamas who don't believe in the State of Israel.
So let's not pretend that they are blameless on all of this. _________________ Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
^
That's going to be the biggest impediment to what everyone in the world seems to want, except the Palestinians and Israelis, a 2 state solution.
Politicians everywhere are jabbering about a 2 state solution, which to be fair is the most obvious suitable outcome. The problem is, Israelis don't want a hostile neighbour state and the Palestinians don't want Israel to exist, period.
So unless the USA grows a set of big hairy balls and enables the UN to do what needs to be done, they're stuck in the doom spiral. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
I think that’s a bit of an oversimplistic read. The Palestinian Authority are in charge of the West Bank – which obviously hasn’t been getting as much publicity of late but is still the bigger and more populated of the occupied territories – and they don’t oppose Israel’s existence, or at the very least are willing to tolerate them. But what they do want is for the illegal settlements to stop, and that’s ultimately the biggest barrier to a two-state solution, which is precisely the reason why Netanyahu has been so keen to support more and more settlements and to sideline the PA as much as possible. The settlements effectively turn the West Bank into a patchwork quilt, and it’s impossible to have a functional state there (with or without Gaza) unless the settlers either relocate or accept living under Palestinian rule. In a sane situation Israel would be doing the precise opposite of what they’re currently doing and give as many settlers as possible incentives to leave and to make it clear to the rest that they’re not getting any protection if they decide to stick around.
No question that Likud and Hamas are both uninterested in a two-state solution and would like full control over the region. But Israel and Palestine are bigger than Likud and Hamas, so the biggest priority is to sideline both sets of extremists and allow the moderates on each side to work something out. It’s a mistake to confuse them historically being frozen out of power with an unchangeable status quo.
On the Israeli side at least, it seems pretty certain that Netanyahu and his rabble are headed for the reject pile next election, so there might yet be a little window of opportunity there. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
|
Post subject: | |
|
Maybe it's overly simplistic, maybe not. I think the outcome that might work is that, because Gaza is fkd, let Israel have the territory and make the West Bank the Palestinian state.
All the "Illegal Settlers" (considering Israel controls the territory, having Israelis move in isn't illegal, just not proper) can choose to live in Palestine or go back to Israel.
The people of Gaza can choose to live in what would become part of Israel or not. They'd likely have better lives living in part of Israel anyway. So they wouldn't have a say in how the government works, that would be par for the course for them and hardly unusual in that part of the world which isn't exactly overflowing with democracies. _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
The reason it's illegal is because Israel isn't supposed to be in control of the territory – it's an annexation, basically, and there are specific international laws around that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
Quote: | The consensus view in the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law. The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies". On 20 December 2019, International Criminal Court chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda announced an International Criminal Court investigation in Palestine into alleged war crimes committed during the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. At present, the view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law. UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice.
The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law. In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are. |
_________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
So why is the USA etc stopping drones from Iran hitting Israel? If they can do that, why didn’t they stop Israeli misfiles hitting Gaza?
This world is £$%$ed _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
Post subject: | |
|
think positive wrote: | So why is the USA etc stopping drones from Iran hitting Israel? If they can do that, why didn’t they stop Israeli misfiles hitting Gaza?
This world is �$%$ed |
Great question.
It exposes the US hypocricy and lies.
The US is giving Israel a blank-cheque to carry out whatever atrocities it likes - genocide in Gaza, freedom to bomb Syria and Lebanon whenever it likes. The USA is not for peace or for any kind of ceasefire: it is hoping that Israel can provoke Iran into an all out war which will then give the US a pretext to intervene fully.
The events we are witnessing cannot be explained on any moral basis. They can only be explained in terms of geopolitical interests and the redivision of the world that the US and its NATO allies are carrying out with more and more recklessness. _________________ Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
|
Post subject: | |
|
Similar to when Soleimani was assassinated, this seems like a bit of a token reprisal on Iran's part. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Magpietothemax
magpietothemax
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
|
Post subject: | |
|
^the Iranian regime does not wish to provoke an all out war against Israel, because it would stand to be obliterated by the US if it did so. However for domestic purposes, the regime had to be seen to be responding to Israel's attack on its embassy in Damascus by Israel and the assassination of top military commanders.
Everything now depends on the results of the current discussions taking place between Netahanyu and Biden as to what happens next in terms of escalating the war. Will the US-Israel criminals decide to use this as a pretext for expanding the war, or will they for now sit with the status quo ? We will find out in a very short time. _________________ Free Julian Assange!!
Ice in the veins |
|
|
|
|
Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: Port Melbourne
|
Post subject: | |
|
Another day of Protests to annoy everyone who doesn't care. I've been told to WFH today, thank you. |
|
|
|
|
|