Present number on the senior list

[Pies4shaw]

I thought it might be useful to do a quick update on this post the Beams/H deal.

It appears that Collingwood started the season with 39 senior listed players, as follows:
Adams
Armstrong
Ball
Beams
Blair
Broomhead
Brown
Clarke
Cloke
Dwyer
Elliott
Fasolo
Freeman
Goldsack
Grundy
Karnezis
Keeffe
Kennedy
Langdon
H
Lynch
Macaffer
Marsh
Maxy
Oxley
Pendles
Ramsay
Reid
Shazza
Seedsman
Sidey
Sinclair
Swan
Josh Thomas
Toovey
White
Williams
Witts
Young

At present, Clarke has been delisted, Ball, Lynch and Maxy have retired and Beams and H have been turned into "real footballers who want to play for Collingwood". Thus, 39 - 6 = 33. Add Greenwood, Crisp and Varcoe and Collingwood has 36 senior-listed players.

IF Collingwood wants to elevate Frost to the senior list, that will make 37 players. Moore makes 38.

Assuming there are no delistings, that suggests that Collingwood have only 2 further (that is, in addition to Moore and Frost) picks in the draft.

Yet Collingwood has "live" picks 5, 30 and 48 (plus the pick for Moore and a couple of late picks if Frost is to be permanently elevated).

That raises the question whether there could be any further delistings. Taking into account contract status, does anyone have any sensible contributions about what might happen there? Ramsay struggled to get a senior opportunity but when he did, late in the year, he showed enough to suggest that he would be retained. There are some other marginal players but I believe them to be contracted.

Thoughts?

[Domesticated_Ape]

I wouldn't like to see any other delistings. If it has to be someone, then I'd hope for Armstrong over Ramsey or Oxley, for example. Not sure where their contracts stand, but I think Ramsey would be out because it's the end of his second year.

Still some hope that we can get an upgrade on pick 5 using picks 30 and 48.

If the Griffen deal falls through, or ends up being Tom Boyd. I'd probably take pick 4 for our 3 picks.

If we add a player to the package, maybe St.Kilda will give us pick 1. There are apparently 3 clubs trying to do a deal with them for it. GWS and the Doggies are two, we could be the other.

Another option is to downgrade someone to the rookie list, though of course they have to agree to do it.

[Culprit]

My thoughts are we have offered up a few players as potential trades as bait to see if any club will bite. When is the cut off for delistings?

[jackcass]

Adams
Armstrong
Ball - Greenwood
Beams - Varcoe
Blair
Broomhead
Brown
Clarke - Crisp
Cloke
Dwyer
Elliott
Fasolo
Freeman
Goldsack
Grundy
Karnezis
Keeffe
Kennedy
Langdon
Lumumba - Moore
Lynch - Pick 5
Macaffer
Marsh
Maxy - Pick 30
Oxley
Pendles
Ramsay
Reid
Shazza
Seedsman
Sidey
Sinclair
Swan
Thomas
Toovey
White
Williams
Witts
Young
Senior 40 - Frost

Rookie 1 -
Rookie 2 -
Rookie 3 -
Rookie 4 - Gault

Cat B Rookie 1 - Cox

Not trying to match like for like but those in red appear our only live picks unless Frost remains on the rookie list and we use Pick 48.

[RudeBoy]

Adams
Armstrong
Ball - Greenwood
Beams - Varcoe
Blair
Broomhead
Brown
Clarke - Crisp
Cloke
Dwyer
Elliott
Fasolo
Freeman
Goldsack
Grundy
Karnezis
Keeffe
Kennedy
Langdon
Lumumba - Moore
Lynch - Pick 5
Macaffer
Marsh
Maxy - Pick 30
Oxley
Pendles
Ramsay
Reid
Shazza
Seedsman
Sidey
Sinclair
Swan
Thomas
Toovey
White
Williams
Witts
Young
Senior 40 - Frost

Rookie 1 -
Rookie 2 -
Rookie 3 -
Rookie 4 - Gault

Cat B Rookie 1 - Cox

Not trying to match like for like but those in red appear our only live picks unless Frost remains on the rookie list and we use Pick 48.

You've left off Darcy Moore.

[jackcass]

You've left off Darcy Moore.

Beside H

[Pies4shaw]

Adams
Armstrong
Ball - Greenwood
Beams - Varcoe
Blair
Broomhead
Brown
Clarke - Crisp
Cloke
Dwyer
Elliott
Fasolo
Freeman
Goldsack
Grundy
Karnezis
Keeffe
Kennedy
Langdon
Lumumba - Moore
Lynch - Pick 5
Macaffer
Marsh
Maxy - Pick 30
Oxley
Pendles
Ramsay
Reid
Shazza
Seedsman
Sidey
Sinclair
Swan
Thomas
Toovey
White
Williams
Witts
Young
Senior 40 - Frost

Rookie 1 -
Rookie 2 -
Rookie 3 -
Rookie 4 - Gault

Cat B Rookie 1 - Cox

Not trying to match like for like but those in red appear our only live picks unless Frost remains on the rookie list and we use Pick 48.

Yes, that's how I read it, too, subject to any intervening delistings.

[swoop42]

Ramsay and Armstrong would be my main two contenders for delisting if we wanted to have more live selections in the national draft.

[Domesticated_Ape]

Are we going to stay with 39 players or with 40? Seems I missed this before.

I think we like to have the extra spot to promote a rookie during preseason, but maybe that wont happen now that Hudson is gone.

Promoting Frost at 48 seems like a bit of a waste too.

[inxs88]

Thanks for the update pies4shaw. Knowing Dekka's history he'll go to the draft like 2013 and see what players still sit come pick 48, not 67 (given it has been sent off to bears), pick 85 and 103 approx.

Given Frost played all 22 matches and signed a 2 year deal, he'll be upgraded and this shall most likely be at pick 85. If Dekka can see talent such as Langdon and J Marsh suitable later in the draft am sure messrs Armstrong and Ramsay may be in trouble.

Given we have 3 spare spots on the rookie list I guess Ramsay would be a handy allocation to there, however I thing Armstrong signed a 2 year deal so that may be more difficult.

The structure of the draft, delisted free agents and the December draft do give the club enough forums to see which way to go. A small problem with our list like many other clubs is the surplus of "Half back flankers";

* Seedsman
* Young
* Toovey
* Sinclair
* Goldsack
* Marley
* Ramsay
* Langdon
* Oxley
* Armstrong

Half back is the spot that those with mid field and offensive flaws tend to gravitate to as a rule of thumb. If we have to delist, this may be the area we need to trim.

[Tannin]

Effectively, we will be two senior players short for at least the first half and more likely the whole of the season: Scharenberg and 'Caff have both had knee recos, so they will be on the long term injury list. This means that we will be able to elevate two rookies for Round 1 to cover LTIs and there is thus no need to elevate Frost.

Armstrong has to stay on the senior list (2 year deal) and Ramsey could be rookied., then elevated to cover a LTI Both Armstrong and Ramsey played well when given the chance, we'd be nuts to push them out just to take a low-probability punt on a youngster.

[stui magpie]

Aren't we able to nominate 1 rookie up front as the "nominated rookie" who is able to play AFL without needing to be elevated? Pretty sure Hudson was our nominated rookie each of the last 2 years.

IIRC there's also a balance between senior list and rookie list.

[Tannin]

From memory, Stui, that depends on how many you have on the senior list. Or maybe you always get one and you can have two if your list is rookie-heavy - I forget already. Doubtless some expert will be along to remind us shortly.

[jackcass]

Are we going to stay with 39 players or with 40? Seems I missed this before.

I think we like to have the extra spot to promote a rookie during preseason, but maybe that wont happen now that Hudson is gone.

Promoting Frost at 48 seems like a bit of a waste too.

Rookie promotions start at the clubs final pick so we'd actually just pass on 48. That's why I was allowing the slim possibility that Frosty remain on the rookie list and we use 48 at the draft. Clearly more options available at 48 than at Rookie draft 1 or later.

[jackcass]

From memory, Stui, that depends on how many you have on the senior list. Or maybe you always get one and you can have two if your list is rookie-heavy - I forget already. Doubtless some expert will be along to remind us shortly.

Yep, if you start with a list of 38, you have 2, 39-1, 40-0.