Russia: the country that hates gay people

[stui magpie]

I didn't say social security was capitalism, I said it's capitalism with a social conscience.

Don't pick bits and twist them out of context.

[David]

But equally, you could refer to the Australian business sphere as 'socialism with a decentralised marketplace'. I guess it just depends where you choose to place the emphasis.

[stui magpie]

It's not just about the emphasis, it's about where the balance sits. Australia is a capitalist society with a social conscience and safety net.

If you weigh up the elements that make a socialist vs capitalist society, the balance falls overwhelmingly on the capitalist side.

[David]

Perhaps, but what are your reference points for that judgement? It's arguable that we've seen examples of something close to pure socialism, but I think it'd be difficult to imagine a pure capitalist state. The US wouldn't even come close.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just sceptical.

[stui magpie]

I'd be interested in where you think we've seen pure socialism and how it worked.

Pure capitalism is darwinism in action and I'm pretty sure you're right it's never been in place. It's a moot point whether you call the safety nets for the poor socialism, social conscience or just plain human rights but I think they're necessary. FWIW the USA would consider a lot of what we do in the human rights area socialist, they are a lot closer to pure capitalism than we are, they're potentially the most right wing country in the world atm.

[David]

[David]

[Tannin]

It's not just about the emphasis, it's about where the balance sits. Australia is a capitalist society with a social conscience and safety net.

If you weigh up the elements that make a socialist vs capitalist society, the balance falls overwhelmingly on the capitalist side.

Nonsense. Well, nonsense until quite recently, say the last couple of decades.

Australia has traditionally been a mixed economy - i.e., an economy which has both capitalist and socialist enterprises. In general, mixed economies provide the best possible social and economic outcomes: the publicly owned corporations set a benchmark to keep the private companies honest and halfway decent, the private companies provide competition to keep the public organisations relevant and efficient.

Australia was outstandingly successful for the best part of half a century, despite not having particularly good underlying conditions (terms of trade; government industry policies and so on); got a boost from the long-overdue introduction of much-needed micro-economic reforms (mostly thanks to Hawke and Keating), and has performed in the poor-to-average class ever since despite a couple of decades worth of very favourable external circumstances. We dismantled our winning mixed economy model in an orgy of privatisation and short-term greed, and only the great good fortune of the mining boom kept us growing and more-or-less healthy. Now, with the boom times over, we are left with no assets in public hands, huge private debt, massive infrastructure expenses looming, huge cost burdens imposed by the mostly foreign oligopolies which now own so many vital economic assets and make massive profits from them (electricity supply, telecommunications, airports, roads, and banks, just to name the most obvious examples) and an economy fast headed for the skids.

[HAL]

Australia is my home.

[What'sinaname]

What's worse, Russia or professional sports like the AFL and NFL.

[pietillidie]

Note the role of the Orthodox Christian Church in this. If they were a Muslim group, that would be the story in and of itself.

Authority, hierarchy and violent fanaticism come in many, many forms.

[David]

Note the role of the Orthodox Christian Church in this. If they were a Muslim group, that would be the story in and of itself.

Authority, hierarchy and violent fanaticism come in many, many forms.

It is well noted. Russia is the perfect example of the truism that religion is not itself at the root of all violence and suffering, but that there are few more effective tools for maintaining power over others.

[David]

Conversation about Islam moved here:

http://magpies.net/nick/bb/viewtopic.php?t=76048

[1061]

They have more open laws but hate doesn't just happen in Russia.

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/the ... ral/131489

[Wokko]

Russia is looking at the degeneration of society in the west and has decided they don't want to head down that path, or at least arrest it while they think they still can. I think they're misguided in their approach, but why is it BAD that a society wants to maintain the traditional values they hold rather than descend into hedonism and destruction of family and sexual morality? I don't have an answer on how they can obtain that outcome and I'd think they're more likely to go too far than not, but their motives appear sound. We think we're so enlightened and superior in Western countries and want to push our own (lack of) morality and values on others. Maybe societies with unfettered sexuality are ultimately suicidal and we're heading for the scrap heap of history, we're certainly not going to see it coming until too late, but why are we SO sure that we're right and they're wrong?

(Transexuals not driving does have be bemused though, the only thing I can think is they're suicide risks, but that's a long bow to draw).