Discussion about acceptable styles of argument in VPT

[stui magpie]

Right. No worries then.

Think stevic and hawthorn

I'm old, my back hurts and I've been drinking.

WTF is a Stevic and I'd rather not think of Whorethorn.

[Morrigu]

I'm old, my back hurts and I've been drinking

Are you channelling me

[Morrigu]

Oh dear, is it Sunday again? It must be, we have the Great Weekly Let's All Shout At PTID Thread. Why? Who knows. He is certainly far, far from the most offensive poster here, and not even in the Top Ten so far as personal abuse, belittlement, and sarcasm goes.

F'kin stupid thread. Again.

In your opinion.

[Tannin]

Oh dear, is it Sunday again? It must be, we have the Great Weekly Let's All Shout At PTID Thread. Why? Who knows. He is certainly far, far from the most offensive poster here, and not even in the Top Ten so far as personal abuse, belittlement, and sarcasm goes.

F'kin stupid thread. Again.

So maybe it's time to start handing out yellow cards and stamp down on the personal abuse, belittlement and sarcasm then if it's so rampant?

Plenty of examples of it in this thread. (See various posts above.)

[pietillidie]

I say let's promote mass hatred and fear one minute and feel all offended by sarcasm the next!

Nick's Taliban is as conflicted as hell because our culture has granted me the right to direct words at them which they think are only fit for Muslims and the unemployed, not folk of their social status. What next, a war on our own culture just to get at me?

The irony is delicious: The usual suspects hate Islam, but have just gathered like the Taliban to conduct an ad hoc disciplinary hearing to rule against the use of sarcasm!

"This man employed cutting sarcasm against me for copying and pasting a righteous headline from the Grand Mufti Breitbart's holy electronic scriptures, sent to him in the night by the angel Gatestone Institute. All I said was that Germany and Europe were in the grip of a rape epidemic caused by our enemies!"

Well, I say Nick's Taliban are being irresponsible and negligent as they have completely insufficient information, and an inadequate grasp of the problem at play and what can and can't be done about it. They're repeating the Iraq War error again.

To repeat the correct answer that no one listened to back then, yes, we hate Saddam Hussein, but that's obvious. Now, let's deal with the complex, adult part of the problem without unleashing far, far nastier forces, handing control to greedy opportunists, and then making the poor old peasants and the rest of us pay for it.

On the other hand, the Taliban could just push to repeal the right to use sarcasm

[Skids]

I can't be bothered anymore. I believe: Islam is very, very dangerous, global warming is the biggest furfy since snake oil, that we can't keep letting illegal immigrants come in at the rate we do, the racist card is flung around way too much and gay people should just get on with their lives and cease their constant attention seeking crap.... nobody cares.

That is all. Have a nice day

[David]

Right. No worries then.

How about stevic being allowed to umpire hawthorn in the grand final hey?

Reminds me of when 1061 accused me of "looking out for mates" when I deleted her personal attacks on you. Who'd be a moderator?

[think positive]

Oh dear, is it Sunday again? It must be, we have the Great Weekly Let's All Shout At PTID Thread. Why? Who knows. He is certainly far, far from the most offensive poster here, and not even in the Top Ten so far as personal abuse, belittlement, and sarcasm goes.

F'kin stupid thread. Again.

So maybe it's time to start handing out yellow cards and stamp down on the personal abuse, belittlement and sarcasm then if it's so rampant?

Plenty of examples of it in this thread. (See various posts above.)

For starters, this thread wasn't a thread, it was split off from another thread after a couple of posters got sick of PTID nasty veiled replies to their comments and opinions which were posted in good faithful another thread. Two of us made comments to try and stop the fight, gently pointing out that belittling others has no place in discussion. Which just ramped him up. So yes, the replies came. I'm sick of it. No one gets a pass just because they use more grown up language to take pot shots at other posters. These threads always come about because he stirs the pot. I like the tavern, I used to like that I could post in a serious thread my harmless opinion and occasionally get laughed at in a nice way, or have my opinion challenged without being made to feel, or being told directly I am, a fool. It makes me feel unworthy. And nobody on here has a right to make me feel that way. Don't let them you say that's your choice? This is me not letting them.

Ok so PTID went to uni, and likes to read books and watch documentaries, well we don't need to discuss anything anymore, just give us a thread title, and he can write an essay. No wonder so many long time posters are gone from the Tavern. It's supposed to be fun. It's not fun to be derided. However it seems, your supposed to just suck it up if the derision comes from certain people because hey they went to a bigger school than you, their humor is more sufisticated, (yep spelt wrong, let it eat at you). So our good old Aussie straight forward comments get snipped, but the sarcastic shit that started it, remains.

You really want to fix this world? Stop allowing people who think they are better than or above, everyone around them, that their opinion is the only one that counts.allowothers to express their opinions with out fear of repercussions. Wether mental or physical duress. Be it war, family daycare, in your house, in bay 13, and yes on a footy forum. It's called basic respect.

But that's just my opinion.

[think positive]

Right. No worries then.

How about stevic being allowed to umpire hawthorn in the grand final hey?

Reminds me of when 1061 accused me of "looking out for mates" when I deleted her personal attacks on you. Who'd be a moderator?

Ok that was a bit obvious! But the point remains, that replies to comments have been snipped, and yet the nasty veiled stuff is still there. There is more than one way to call someone an idiot. None have a place here.

[pietillidie]

So maybe it's time to start handing out yellow cards and stamp down on the personal abuse, belittlement and sarcasm then if it's so rampant?

Plenty of examples of it in this thread. (See various posts above.)

For starters, this thread wasn't a thread, it was split off from another thread after a couple of posters got sick of PTID nasty veiled replies to their comments and opinions which were posted in good faithful another thread. Two of us made comments to try and stop the fight, gently pointing out that belittling others has no place in discussion. Which just ramped him up. So yes, the replies came. I'm sick of it. No one gets a pass just because they use more grown up language to take pot shots at other posters. These threads always come about because he stirs the pot. I like the tavern, I used to like that I could post in a serious thread my harmless opinion and occasionally get laughed at in a nice way, or have my opinion challenged without being made to feel, or being told directly I am, a fool. It makes me feel unworthy. And nobody on here has a right to make me feel that way. Don't let them you say that's your choice? This is me not letting them.

Ok so PTID went to uni, and likes to read books and watch documentaries, well we don't need to discuss anything anymore, just give us a thread title, and he can write an essay. No wonder so many long time posters are gone from the Tavern. It's supposed to be fun. It's not fun to be derided. However it seems, your supposed to just suck it up if the derision comes from certain people because hey they went to a bigger school than you, their humor is more sufisticated, (yep spelt wrong, let it eat at you). So our good old Aussie straight forward comments get snipped, but the sarcastic shit that started it, remains.

You really want to fix this world? Stop allowing people who think they are better than or above, everyone around them, that their opinion is the only one that counts.allowothers to express their opinions with out fear of repercussions. Wether mental or physical duress. Be it war, family daycare, in your house, in bay 13, and yes on a footy forum. It's called basic respect.

But that's just my opinion.

No, the problem here is your inability to cope with the fact you there's no special constitution just for you, and that your nonsense smells no better than anyone else's nonsense.

<snip - that is a baseless imputation; please stick to the topic at hand.>

Wanting a situation where everyone can say what they like as long as it doesn't upset you, while you get to blurt out any old rubbish whenever you like absent the right of response as others see fit, just isn't an option. You've hit the hard wall of the Enlightenment, I'm afraid, and if you don't like that it's you who's in the wrong country.

Whoever told you that humanity should bow to your whim and outrage whenever you read an upsetting Facebook post was terribly wrong.

[think positive]

As usual a deflecting reply, that bypasses the actual subject.

All I'm asking for is common decency. The good manners not to play the man, but play the ball. No stevie j hits 50 metres off the ball.

And also please note I do not appreciate the snide connotation I'm a racist, or a bigot, in your reply.

[Mugwump]

^ reading this rather unhappy thread, any real coming together seems impossible. To use a footballing analogy, many people - I am one - feel that PTID snipes too much off the ball, and we'd like and end to the unsociable football and the occasional forearms to the back of the head. PTID seems to think that he's playing for the legitimate team (I guess that's Collingwood) and his opponents are playing for the illegitimate side (Carlton or
St Kilda) ...so his in-game tactics are perfectly justified by that. It's not likely to get resolved when we cannot even agree about how to frame the issue.

PTID, you have a lot to offer, but you're way too bright not to see that the way you go about it evidently gets in the way, and makes people less likely to see your point of view, not more. If that does not worry you, then we all have to learn to live with it (or switch it off) as best we can.

[Tannin]

The really stupid thing here is that there is no obvious evidence to demonstrate that the lynch mob even has genuine grounds for complaint.

[Mugwump]

The really stupid thing here is that there is no obvious evidence to demonstrate that the lynch mob even has genuine grounds for complaint.

I'm genuinely surprised at that, but I'm not sure you cop the same stuff as those who tend to be on the other side of the argument vis a vis PTID. When so many different posters have been here "asking" (ahem) PTID to moderate his behaviour, i'd say that's prima facie evidence that there's some serious rubbing up the wrong way going on, even if you do not think it warranted. I accept that it can feel uncomfortably like mobbing, which is why I'll make this my last entry in it, having stood aside from most of it.

I don't think it'd be acceptable to post pictures of Saddam Hussein suggesting that PtID supported Saddam's crimes because he opposed the Iraq War ( at least I think he opposed ithe war - he's never been entirely clear where he stands on that ) ....So i don't think it's acceptable when something along those lines is done to others. Rebuttal and gentle ribbing is fine - smear by false association is not. And that's what started this, with the posting of vigilante thugs in response to Wokko's argument about Islamisation. You may consider that ok, but i don't think it's fair play.

[pietillidie]