Post Match. Pies lose to Dogs. All comments, please.

[Lazza]

I know its only Round 1.

So seriously don’t you think that any assessment is far too early? All this type of post achieves is to validate all the chicken Little’s out their panicking about the sky falling in. Eight other clubs will lose in this round. They will not be calling for beheadings (not including the dumb hack media who as usual will.) I’m confident that we will beat the scum next week and make everyone here happy again. It’s always swings and roundabouts dude. Stay cool and stress less.

[Magpietothemax]

Then it’s the lack of development within the club making our debutants look unready.

Agree Cruisinwithdids on all your other points as well, but this one was the one that really makes me bitterly disappointed right now. Look at how the debutantes for other clubs (Swans,Adelaide and now PA) burst out of the blocks in either their debut games or third or fourth games. Contrast this with how our debutantes and young guys with fewer than 10 games are coming forward? Either not in the team (Murphy,), or thrown in out of their depth (Henry, Ruscoe)...I just don't understand how we can appear so far behind other clubs in so many spheres...

[Pies2016]

Zac Reid and Nik Cox were both selected before our first pick. When you throw in Perkins, they have nailed that draft.
But that’s what happens when you don’t win a final for 15 years. The AFL will make you competitive again by rewarding you for mediocrity.
But when you have played in the last three consecutive finals series ( as bad as Hine is at his job ) you don’t get those same rewards while you’re competitive.

For Collingwood there’s more to its drafting issues than the fact we have played 3 years of finals. It’s over paying for Beams & Treloar, costing us future high picks. It’s not moving on Jamie Elliott when the opportunity was there. It’s the recruitment of average mids over forwards. Then it’s the lack of development within the club making our debutants look unready.

I’ve been arguing this point for the last 12 months. When we were playing Varcoe and Reid last season we should have been playing kids. Hine has recruited well. They look good on the training track but have yet to build up their bodies and lack senior AFL games in their feet. There is no easy fix in the AFL when you lose your most valuable senior players. You just have to play the kids and accept the inevitable that you’re going to lose games of AFL footy before you start winning again. So don’t blame Buckley. Don’t blame Hine. Blame the fact that we thought we were close to a premiership and overpaid for proven players we thought would get us over the line.

I can knock off two responses in one post here

C W D I think everyone knows there’s more to our failings than drafting but It was a response to Essendons drafting of three very promising footballers.
I guarantee if we did have a single digit pick, we would have selected Reid or Cox ( both 200cm ) but we didnt have a good enough pick. We also didn’t have a Daniher, Saad or Fantasia who couldn’t get out of the place quick enough either.
It needs to said that guys like Hine carry so much I P, the last thing you do is move on these specialists until you know you have a replacement who comes to the club with the same amount of I P or more. Needless to say, they don’t grow on trees.

M B F C. I agree we misread the tea leaves on development in the last year or two. We’ve invested now but we’re probably a good 12 months behind where we need to be. It doesnt help that 6 of our 8 draftees didn’t play any competitive footy in 2020 either ( Bianco and Rantall also missed 12 months of development )
As you said, we need to wear it for a year or two and then enjoy the next generation coming through.
They don’t need to be fast tracked, they just need to be properly developed.

[Lazza]

^^^^^

Excellent summation. Simply could not agree more

[Raw Hammer]

Pies currently have the lowest score of the round (we played in the most perfect conditions you could want), including a game played on torrential rain. With one more game to go.

That’s all you need to know about our forward line under Buckley’s regime.

[Cruisinwithdids]

For Collingwood there’s more to its drafting issues than the fact we have played 3 years of finals. It’s over paying for Beams & Treloar, costing us future high picks. It’s not moving on Jamie Elliott when the opportunity was there. It’s the recruitment of average mids over forwards. Then it’s the lack of development within the club making our debutants look unready.

I’ve been arguing this point for the last 12 months. When we were playing Varcoe and Reid last season we should have been playing kids. Hine has recruited well. They look good on the training track but have yet to build up their bodies and lack senior AFL games in their feet. There is no easy fix in the AFL when you lose your most valuable senior players. You just have to play the kids and accept the inevitable that you’re going to lose games of AFL footy before you start winning again. So don’t blame Buckley. Don’t blame Hine. Blame the fact that we thought we were close to a premiership and overpaid for proven players we thought would get us over the line.

I can knock off two responses in one post here

C W D I think everyone knows there’s more to our failings than drafting but It was a response to Essendons drafting of three very promising footballers.
I guarantee if we did have a single digit pick, we would have selected Reid or Cox ( both 200cm ) but we didnt have a good enough pick. We also didn’t have a Daniher, Saad or Fantasia who couldn’t get out of the place quick enough either.
It needs to said that guys like Hine carry so much I P, the last thing you do is move on these specialists until you know you have a replacement who comes to the club with the same amount of I P or more. Needless to say, they don’t grow on trees.

M B F C. I agree we misread the tea leaves on development in the last year or two. We’ve invested now but we’re probably a good 12 months behind where we need to be. It doesnt help that 6 of our 8 draftees didn’t play any competitive footy in 2020 either ( Bianco and Rantall also missed 12 months of development )
As you said, we need to wear it for a year or two and then enjoy the next generation coming through.
They don’t need to be fast tracked, they just need to be properly developed.

Pies, you’re point that we need to ‘wear it’ is very valid & I think something that we have been reluctant to do. As a club we seem to be planning only in the moment, heavily reliant on individuals week to week, constantly whining about injuries rather than getting on with the development of young players. We need to learn from some of our stop- gap recruiting from other clubs, take our medicine and build sustainable systems that plan for us to be on the up in 2-3 seasons. We have won 2 of the last 62 flags. Given that fact, I’d be happy to wait a few years to try and build something sustainable.

[Piesnchess]

Pies currently have the lowest score of the round (we played in the most perfect conditions you could want), including a game played on torrential rain. With one more game to go.

That’s all you need to know about our forward line under Buckley’s regime.

Least we lost to a quality team, and not the wooden spooner as the Cats did, or did we cough up a 40 point lead as the Dons did. Nth got belted with their boom recruit, Stephenson. Its Rd 1, shit happens, but we werent the worst performed side. I will wait a few more Rounds before passing my judgement.

[Said by Zed]

Hi folks, first time poster long, long time guest and avid follower.

Have been a fervent Pies supporter for over 40 years - and like most on here have rode the good, not so good, and bad times over that time (unfortunately as we all know all too well the ledger is still heavily skewed towards the red). During all this have fought the good fight and successfully indoctrinated wife, kids, dog, cat, and several associates into the Magpie Army.

As such, considering the important and critical nature of the juncture our great club is currently at, I have reinstated our club memberships and decided to share my thoughts and discuss our situation and vent with other likeminded and passionate Pies fans in forums like Nicks.

Last Friday’s game against the Dogs is not really a great indicator of where we are regards personnel, game plan, motivation, future, finals aspirations etc. As others have mentioned first game rust and all that played a part more for us than them (all things considered) and we haven’t matched up well against them for a while now - our ‘method’ is ineffective against their team make up of 16 plus midfielders. My pros and cons coming out of that game:

Pros:
* Defensive unit in particular Moore, Howe, Quaynor (run & use will be elite) & Maynard
* Resilience and desire to fight out game
* Improvement from Cox (to a degree)
* Game time in furnace hot environment for returning and newish mids

Cons:
* Game has gone past JT and WHE must surely be on notice. Love these guys but the evidence doesn’t lie (happy to elaborate for doubters)
* Ruscoe Man, Henry, and Cox need a quality experienced forward general mentor/teacher for guidance otherwise they will never improve their craft to the level required (Tex would have been an ideal fit) This is one of the main reasons there appears to be a disconnect between our forwards and mids - lack of forward craft. Our mids on average take a split second longer to release into the forward line, make poor decisions, or kick poorly because our forwards do not separate/present/lead/block/work together effectively enough for long enough.
* Small forwards totally ineffective at applying and implying pressure to preventing quick release out of forward line (team ethos must be to tackle and apply pressure and reward and acknowledge each other - refute all external gratification and recognition)
* Ruck is completely disconnected with the team - seems to be playing selfish footy. Must return to being a generous player who makes team mates around him better not just looking to set up play for himself to get possession. It’s not rocket surgery - other teams have worked this out and are easily nullifying Grundy’s once impervious impact and have turned this against us - how many times did Grundy get the tap and put it where he wanted to run on and get it only for the opposition to be waiting there for it...even the opposing ruckman. This is so obvious that opposing rover and centre actually first movement is charging towards where Grundy tapping to whereas our lot are expecting as previously that Grundy would get first use and dish to them who are going the other way with impunity. That’s why we lose so many clearances even though we dominate the taps.
* Poor or inadequate understanding of roles. No professional team takes to the field and then plays on instinct. The Dogs as much as it will be said DO NOT PLAY ON INSTINCT and are probably one of the more structured and robotic AFL teams. Have a look at their set up at EVERY contest and the way they use their handballs. They are not just banging these out Willy-Nilly their is method to this manic use by hand. Have another look and you will see that once they gather clean possession they shovel it back to player waiting a few metres outside the contest to kick it forward or release by hand to runners going past at speed at 45. Meanwhile we are flat footed and ‘grunting’ the ball forward with no real plan what to do if we get possession. The evidence does not lie.
* Extremely poor umpire management. How many times was Grundy man handled high and even blatantly pushed in the back during ruck contests without recourse, how many times were our backs fouled at critical times without a whistle, how come players in black and white can be hit high or tackled without it or high. Tigers and Cats address this by forging better relationships with the umps under the guise of trying to understand the rules better and helping making their jobs easier. Have a look at the frees count in the Dogs game - then correlate this with when and where the frees were awarded and which team had the momentum ascendency. I’ve done this over the years and have been branded a whiner but the evidence doesn’t lie - I put this down to the umps turning 50:50 decisions against us on the basis they don’t want to be perceived as being weak and trying to demonstrate that they are not capable of being ‘bullied’ or coerced by a loud parochial fan base such as ours. Obviously other teams seize on this and push the boundaries to the limit which is usually heavily skewed against. Have a look at the first few games last year with no crowds (and abuse directed at the umps from crowd) we were being paid frees i haven’t seen paid to us in consistent frequency EVER! Have a look at last years game against dogs - evidence does not lie!

Another major con and handicap for the Mighty Pies this week was having to carry my 52 year old fat a$$ on their backs the entire game - so confident we’d beat the Dogs I placed $100 of my hard earned on us to win id already spent the $290 towards a new set of golf clubs...

Obviously no offence intended by this post - love the Pies and each and every player who has ever put on the black and white.

All the best,

Zed

[Piesnchess]

^ Well said Zed, welcome, u make some excellent points mate.!

[Raw Hammer]

Pies currently have the lowest score of the round (we played in the most perfect conditions you could want), including a game played on torrential rain. With one more game to go.

That’s all you need to know about our forward line under Buckley’s regime.

Least we lost to a quality team, and not the wooden spooner as the Cats did, or did we cough up a 40 point lead as the Dons did. Nth got belted with their boom recruit, Stephenson. Its Rd 1, shit happens, but we werent the worst performed side. I will wait a few more Rounds before passing my judgement.

I don’t care who we lost to.
We can’t score.
Haven’t been able to for 2 years.
It’s OK though. C.Brown and Cameron will come I my o that forward line and all will be swell.

[Magpietothemax]

Pies currently have the lowest score of the round (we played in the most perfect conditions you could want), including a game played on torrential rain. With one more game to go.

That’s all you need to know about our forward line under Buckley’s regime.

You beat me to it. Yep, our score stands out. Already in the 2nd quarter, both WC and GC have each kicked 4 goals each.
Our capacity to score is an outlier for its deficiency. Only comparable scores:
Freemantle (total of 58
North Melbourne: 65

[Presti35]

What I liked:

The pregame video. That was great. Liked the AFL approved flags in the cheersquads too. The ones with the old logos especially. I liked the lighting thing after each Collingwood goal. Oh hang on...

...Things from the actual game? Well. We only lost by 16, but it felt like it was out of reach all night. It felt like it was 40+. We let too many chances go. We could have won this game with a bit more desperation for the ball, especially in F50.

Moore was steller!! In fact out back 6 is amazing. One of the best in the league. Pitty our front 6 is a shocker.

I've lost faith in:

WHE.

I was thinking that to myself fairly early into the game. Around the time he shepherded the player and they still got it rushed thru. He should have just attacked that ball. Certain goal gone.

Then he made several other mistakes.

I'm always one to back the players, but I believe he needs a spell. Problem is, who comes in for him. We have no forwards.

[Raw Hammer]

Pies currently have the lowest score of the round (we played in the most perfect conditions you could want), including a game played on torrential rain. With one more game to go.

That’s all you need to know about our forward line under Buckley’s regime.

You beat me to it. Yep, our score stands out. Already in the 2nd quarter, both WC and GC have each kicked 4 goals each.
Our capacity to score is an outlier for its deficiency. Only comparable scores:
Freemantle (total of 58
North Melbourne: 65

Collingwood officially have the worst score and least goals kicked by a team in round one. Bravo, Pies.

[mattdally]

We also have the 4th best defence.

[The Boy Who Cried Wolf]

I better find a gold star so I can pin it to Buck's report card...