Young people are the dumbest demograhic

[Mugwump]

I'm not sure if it's come up before, but this piece challenging the mainstream idea that the brain is like a computer is worth a look.

https://aeon.co/essays/your-brain-does- ... a-computer

It was an interesting article, and I was not aware of Aeon, which seems like well worth reading more broadly.

I thought it was genuinely useful, though I am still not sure if it is saying anything really new :

- that humans have emotions and an individualised reality, and that influences the way we process the world in a way that machine cannot ;

- that heuristics (eg the angle of trajectory of the ball vs the horizon) are not the same as the algorithms required by computers ;

- that there are two kinds of processing - the intuitive, impression-based type which is often very integrated with the human body, and the calculating type (what Daniel Kahnemann calls System 1 and System 2 in his great book "Thinking fast and Slow").... etc

If nothing else, it was a useful reminder that the machine model of the human mind is really just a metaphor, and machines and humans hold and manage information quite differently. "Turing test" machines may sound and like humans under many conditions, but it is nearly impossible to conceive (let alone inspect) machine "consciousness".

I suspect many people want to depersonalise the world and take away the concept of individual will and responsibility, as doing so renders human beings either more susceptible to control, and/or completely liberated from ordinary duty and morality. Reminding ourselves that we are not the same as machines is a good defence against those unpleasant philosophies.

[pietillidie]

[Skids]

I was thinking about this last night... does wisdom come with age? What happened to listening to people who obviously are going to have more experience and IMO, more knowledge.

I notice on social media and in general, somebody in their 50's or 60's has a strong opinion on something and the younger generation are quick to dismiss them with the "Yeah righto Boomer" line. A far cry from when I was a youngster and the 'respect your elders' was an unquestioned rule.

This is probably digressing a bit but...

In the workplace now, I'm flabbergasted by the complacency and laziness in the younger employees.
We've just had a recent influx of new apprentices (80% female) and the attitudes toward work is astounding.
Our 'yard' had bins overflowing, things out of place, dirty vehicles etc and where are the apprentices... sitting in the smoko room on their phones!

I can't stand stuff like that, so here I am, 55 yr old Skids, emptying the bins and tidying the place up, hoping to set an example and wake them from their slumber. Nope, none budged.
Now I didn't say anything, as they're not 'my' apprentices, but I did raise the issue with the supervisors. Nothing happened, they're too scared to upset the kids.

Another example was when we had this young lady (22) want to expand her horizons from the admin desk and she became a TA for our team.
We had her with us when fixing a burst pipe in the wall of an ablution bock a few months into her new role. Absolutely no idea, not even remotely thinking ahead or having any initiative in the situation. Again, this pissed me off and I said to the chippy she was working under "do you mind if I have a chat with her?" He was all for it.
I approached her, very gently and tried to give her some constructive criticism about how she should be attacking the role. She agreed and i thought I'd had a win... nope, next job we're on, the old plumbers are busting their ring in the trenches, she's wandered off to the smokers hut, happily talking and laughing with other crew.
I gave up, and not long after, so did she. She now works back in admin, she's very good at that role too.

So, where di it all turn pear shape?
When I was an apprentice, no way in the world you'd be doing nothing at any time of the day, there's always something to do, even if it's cleaning and sorting the tools, washing the car, geez, even pulling out weeds, showing some enthusiasm... it's non existent today.

Back on the Older/Wiser topic.

Unfortunately, research shows that cognitive functioning slows as people age. But speed isn’t everything. A recent study in Topics in Cognitive Science pointed out that older people have much more information in their brains than younger ones, so retrieving it naturally takes longer. And the quality of the information in the older brain is more nuanced. While younger people were faster in tests of cognitive performance, older people showed “greater sensitivity to fine-grained differences,” the study found.

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/13/busi ... wiser.html

[David]

[stui magpie]

I agree

[think positive]

The 10 **** today should be put straight in Juvie, they and their family to pay all costs including for the police chase, throw away the key til they are 18.

[stui magpie]

In the '60s and '70s? Really? Perhaps things were different here, but it's certainly not the impression one gets from that time period …

I came back to this, as you weren't there you'd be basing your opinion on movies or something. "Respect your elders" was very much beaten into kids (literally) from day dot back then. Yeah, teens have always been rebellious and late teens once they left home often went feral, but when kids entered the workforce in the early 80's it was largely "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir"

I was a tad different, as an only child who started working behind the counter of mums milk bar as a 6-7 year old in 71/72 I had no problems speaking back to adults who got smart with me and most seriously didn't like it.

The attitude toward work which Skids described was again drummed into kids by parents who'd grown up during WWII. You sit down at smoko or lunch time, otherwise get off your arse and do something.

[Skids]

Yes, you're spot on there Stui.
I remember one occasion (we were about 15) when our local cop, Sgt Ball, caught us drinking outside a public pool one night. He beat the shit out of me with his torch, told me to get home and he'd be calling my old man in half an hour to make sure I was there. Dad gave me another hiding when I got home.

Now, you see videos of smart arses giving the cops a hard time and a heap of lip. No way anyone would have spoken to a cop the way they do now, no way in the world.

I still see old Mr Ball at the footy, he's been a trainer at Swan Districts for 50 years. He was tough, but he was fair.

[think positive]

In the '60s and '70s? Really? Perhaps things were different here, but it's certainly not the impression one gets from that time period …

I came back to this, as you weren't there you'd be basing your opinion on movies or something. "Respect your elders" was very much beaten into kids (literally) from day dot back then. Yeah, teens have always been rebellious and late teens once they left home often went feral, but when kids entered the workforce in the early 80's it was largely "yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir"

I was a tad different, as an only child who started working behind the counter of mums milk bar as a 6-7 year old in 71/72 I had no problems speaking back to adults who got smart with me and most seriously didn't like it.

The attitude toward work which Skids described was again drummed into kids by parents who'd grown up during WWII. You sit down at smoko or lunch time, otherwise get off your arse and do something.

yeah i agree with this.

where as beating a kid is not ok, there is not a kid in the world coudnt use a smack on occassion, the naughty corner doesnt work, just look at the feral shits running wild.

i cant be the only one when i see a 12 year old arrested at 3am in a stolen car saying, WTF, where are the parents?

[David]

[think positive]

note i said a smack not a belting

[David]

Wherever we draw the line, it's still physical force, right? I'm not saying I don't see the difference between limited corporal punishment and the kind of violence that, say, Skids describes, but at the end of the day both are framed around physical expressions of authority. So the challenge is for those of us who (by choice) don't have recourse to physical authority to find an effective alternative.

[Skids]

I found with my girls, a smack once was all that was required. From then on, just the threat was enough.
I could count the times I spanked my daughters on one hand.

One of my grand sons is a little terror, he's had a few spankings from his Mum. Sharnee has found the best course of action is to say 'I'll call Grandad!". That seems to work best, even though I've never laid a hand on him.

[stui magpie]

There's a lot of information out there about how to discipline kids without being physical, unfortunately most parents don't have access to it so everyone goes freeform.

Some just repeat what they experienced, others try to do the opposite, others in the middle somewhere.

Smacking is not on but at the other end people who let their kids do whatever they want with no understanding of what they're doing are raising self entitled twats.

[think positive]

I found with my girls, a smack once was all that was required. From then on, just the threat was enough.
I could count the times I spanked my daughters on one hand.

One of my grand sons is a little terror, he's had a few spankings from his Mum. Sharnee has found the best course of action is to say 'I'll call Grandad!". That seems to work best, even though I've never laid a hand on him.

yup!