The List (2024 player movements / list updates / contract discussions)

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LaurieHolden
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Re: Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments.

Post by LaurieHolden »

qldmagpie67 wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:41 am It amazes me sometimes reading these post match threads
Posters are happy to take pot shots at Long or Schulz or Bytel yet they let Sidey slide
Schulz can’t kick for goal let’s nag him but Sidey missed a soda 30m out
Bytel can’t kick yet Sidey missed a open WHE with a pass that landed 10 rows back in the stands under no pressure
Long missed a tackle well at half time Sidey had more ineffective tackles than he had kicks
Okay, I'll bite. I suspect it amazes the Board more that you'll die on the hill with your campaign against Sidebottom. I haven't seen more opposition to something other than trying to wrest the remote-control out of my old mans hand while the ABC news was on, but this obsession runs a close 2nd.
Maybe just let Sidey run out his career as a generational Club champion and just enjoy each remaining game while he busts his gut in his 16th and maybe last season.
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Durka
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Re: Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments.

Post by Durka »

qldmagpie67 wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 5:41 am It amazes me sometimes reading these post match threads
Posters are happy to take pot shots at Long or Schulz or Bytel yet they let Sidey slide
I don't think that Sidey will be encouraged to play on next year. As great as he has been, he just can't do it any more.
Have a look at Richmond's third goal. The ball is bouncing towards goal, Sidey chasing with 3 Richmond players behind him. All 3 overtook him, leading to an easy goal.
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Re: Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments.

Post by BazBoy »

Pendles has been offered 1 yr contract

Of the others like Sidey will get one

I thought Elliott looked OK
I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right
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Gerry Cooper
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Re: Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments.

Post by Gerry Cooper »

I don't think Sidebottom should play on next year. He's been well off the pace all year. He tries to rekindle his past form but it's mostly beyond him now. He has become one of our key onfield vulnerabilities. If he is offered a contract for next year, he should be told he will be spending most of his time in the reserves.
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Re: Post Match. Pies trump Tigers. All comments.

Post by qldmagpie67 »

LaurieHolden wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 9:27 am^
Laurie you’ve missed the point
People taking pot shots at guys who’ve played a handful of games yet they’ll let sustained errors by the same player go without the same condemnation
If posters looked objectively and handed our equal criticism to others it would be much easier to tolerate
Sooner or later you’ll have to admit his form has been at best poor but more accurately very poor.
The game speed has gone past him. He was moved from the wing because he was a liability. Down back he’s a bigger liability it’s been shown.
His best ended about 50 games ago
He will have a moment every few weeks that makes you think maybe he has it still but truth is he doesn’t and those moments have become more and more scarce
If he had any self awareness he would have announced his retirement months ago
There is no way the club should allow him to go on if we seriously have desires to be in premiership contention next season
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LaurieHolden
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Re: The List

Post by LaurieHolden »

^I suspect I haven't missed a thing. You know you take any opportunity to jump on him at any point. I suspect most of it is you like the reactions but hey, it's an open forum you're entitled to say what you think. But let's at least be objective.
I don't think he's a sacred cow by any stretch, but we don't have an effective replacement that can pick up 20+ disposals over a full season and still impact games.
Just for a moment, look at his 2024 statistics, but when you do, remove his name. Without an able replacement with respect to what we have on our list, he's been more than serviceable. Might the Club have been the one to request he plays on?
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp- ... sidebottom

We've 11 players between 100 and 200 games and 5 greater than >100 and less than < 150 games.
If we don't trade in players in that aforementioned bracket, good luck trying to evolve the <50 game players.
IF we had able-bodied replacements to force Sidey from the named starting XXIII, then the selectors I suspect might be more willing to have phased him out by now, and he might just have seen fit to call it time, or as you term it, self-awareness. :roll: A bloke that has played 10 seasons (let alone 16) might will inevitably hit the wall, and it's rarely on their terms, but let's not let the frustration of the season become the reason you ride him into the ground while he's in the departure lounge. He's owed more respect than that.
But we currently need the experience while the likes of JDG, Pendles, McStay, Howe, Elliott that have been sidelined for long periods. Is that Sidebottom's problem?
@qldmagpie67 I get we have some untried talent who might make it as good or very good AFL players but if we keep prioritising keeping veterans on our list over giving kids time to develop then we wonder when we improve

This is such a simplistic statement at so many levels. Who would you have given a body of games in front of Sidebottom?
We've had injuriesa nd as a result we've had more debutants than most seasons, but we don't have the depth in the mid-tier bracket.
Players that have had under 3 pre-seasons simply do not possess the stamina to run out games. Only a very few gifted athletes can do that. e.g. Harrison who is starting to labor.

This is a list management development issue discussion. Our veterans have been left exposed due to a congruence of injury, draft busts and lack of talent within the 100-200 game bracket not pushing through a ceiling into anything that resembles A grade territory. IQ, Lipinski & Noble are the only real youth we have in this games bracket, but they're simply average role-playing footballers, not the ones that will stay in or break open a game.
Bring in players too early and their careers are much more likely to stall. And the body of evidence to this? GWS, The Suns, Kangaroos have been replete with untried talent. What they lacked more than anything is culture, and with that Sidey oozes Collingwood DNA and culture that the next generation need to glean.

Finally, on the 'self-awareness?' Consider that the analysis is the aspect that requires self-awareness and bring in some objectivity to remove the singularity on the continued focus on one player.
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Re: The List

Post by Gerry Cooper »

Steele has been an ornament to the game and our team but his time is rapidly approaching. I agree he is getting games basically because we seem to have no available replacement for him and because of our injury list this year. We can't do much about that.
Looking at his stats they look good but underneath tells another story. Take the July 5th Essendon game. 34 possessions looks good doesn't it? However in that game in the second half he was a key reason we lost the way we did. Playing in the backline he gathered lots of possessions but almost none of them were effective. Passes and handballs that missed their targets, fell short, went to an Essendon player, or put the targeted player under pressure leading to a turnover. It was painful to watch. Essendon preyed on him. I think if we had one player in his age bracket and situation, we could perhaps continue to carry him, but we have a number in a similar situation and most of them are being more productive than Steele.
Over the last few games I have noticed Steele, Pendles, and often Crisp, are having good first half's but as the game goes on they become far less effective. It's one reason our last quarter comebacks have dropped off. That is not going to improve.
We need to be looking to move these older players on honorably in a manner befitting their status at the club, not waiting until their performances have become an embarrassment to themselves and the club. That might hurt us in the short-term, but we will be better for it in the long term.
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Re: The List

Post by qldmagpie67 »

Laurie you make some fair points but we aren’t going to agree on the Sidey point and that’s fine it’s a opinion firm as you say
But how do we know if a young player is going to make it or not if there not given games or game time ?
We aren’t giving them any sort of consistent chance
In for a game or 2 then out for 4 weeks bring them back for a game gone again
Sidey himself never kicked the door down when he got his first chance. When he came in many wondered if we had wasted pick 11. He wasn’t an instant hit.
He took some time to develop but IMO we aren’t offering our next generation the same opportunity. And in all fairness we’ve often played them out of position too boot.
There’s no guarantee any of them will make it (even though I have high hopes for Richard’s Harrison and Long (I think he shown he has the body to play inside and be a good foil for Nick) to a lesser extent Parker and Allan.
As for the self awareness comment some older players see the end clearly and walk away some need to be pushed because they don’t see it. The comment was meant to be around let him announce his own retirement now finish out the season and walk away. How would the supporter base feel if come seasons end if the club said nope your done bye bye ?
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Re: The List

Post by Collfucius »

Collfucius says:
Ability will never catch up with the demand for it
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Re: The List

Post by The Black and White Lion »

We could do with a playing coach in the VFL again. I would be happy for a Sidey to lace up in the 2s but not so sure he would. I think his time is up and he and Pendles won't set the all time playing together record. Both he and the club may have other plans to play on or retire though. The pain of missing out on a GF this year might be the impetus for one more season with a re-light of the fire in the belly. I'm guessing he had a trigger clause in his contract also like Pendles and he's played most of the season so may have already triggered a deal for next year too but they haven't announced it yet. Only a few months left to find out.

Either way, we're in horrible shape right now. 2 games out of the 8 with 4 to play against Blues, Swans, Lions and Dees, all teams playing for the finals and Melbourne is scrapping in the same place we are. Our list appears dire going forward and tanking now actually won't help. Freo have our first draft pick and Hawthorn have our second. Freo will take our next best mid prospect and Hawthorn will take our next KPF. The way the Hawks are rising our first pick could be outside the 30. Bizarrely now the best thing we can do for our list is win and get back ahead of the Hawks on the ladder. The Hawks are likely to win 2 of their last 4 games against Richmond and North so we're relying on the GWS and Blues to beat them well.

We need to rise and the hawks to sink so we get a better second round draft look at one of the U18 KPP's like the Whitlock twins, Nichols, O'Farrell, Sims, Faull, Mraz or Shanahan (all 194 to 200cm types). The good news is there's a few to pick from.

I wonder how deep we're going to cut the list. Carmichael's gone so that's one spot. I think we need a minimum of 3. Begg and Steene both have some question marks on them and one of them could be in trouble with the rise of Smit. Begg probably but would like to see him play KPD before we delist him. Someone has to retire surely? Howe, Cox, Mitchell, Sidey I'm looking at one of you. If not that's going to put pressure on the likes of Ryan as Allen and Johnson have another year on their deals. If Ryan goes that will be another dose of a second or third round SA draft pick going home after 2 or 3 years.
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark of the last quarter
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Re: The List

Post by Jen2310 »

The Black and White Lion wrote: Mon Jul 29, 2024 6:10 pmIf not that's going to put pressure on the likes of Ryan as Allen and Johnson have another year on their deals. If Ryan goes that will be another dose of a second or third round SA draft pick going home after 2 or 3 years.
While Johnson has 1 more year (2025) Both Ryan and Allan are contracted until 2026. Both signed a 2 year extension prior to them playing a game. This was early-mid 2023, into their first year.
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Re: The List

Post by The Black and White Lion »

^
Oh thanks Jen, I didn't know Ryan had an extra year too. Geez that's going to make it even harder for Begg and at least 1 retiree then.
Ed Allen kicked our last goal of the year at the 58minute mark of the last quarter
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Re: The List

Post by RudeBoy »

I'm disappointed in Reef's output this year. Like Finn Macrae, he's been given many chances to demonstrate his worth, but after being with us for a few years now, I'm yet to be convinced that either of them are good enough to retain.

While a great KPF would be welcomed, I'm also not convinced our major need is for a KPF. To my mind, we desperately need a potential A Grade midfielder, especially with the likelihood of JDG's ongoing injury issues. JDG will be 29 before the start of next season. The modern game is won in the guts. Remember we won the flag last year (as we did in 1990) without a genuine FF or CHF.
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Collingwood Player Contracts Ending 2024

Post by SLORT »

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/to- ... od-magpies

Collingwood players at final year of contracts -

- Aiden Begg
- Charlie Dean
- Jack Bytel
- Jeremy Howe
- Joe Richards
- Josh Eyre
- Lachie Sullivan
- Nathan Kreuger
- Ned Long
X Oleg Markov (re-signed for 2025)
- Oscar Steene
- Reef McInnes
- Steele Sidebottom
- Will Hosken-Elliot
Last edited by SLORT on Thu Aug 08, 2024 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2024 player movements / list updates / contract discussions

Post by Pies4shaw »

According to the AFL webnsite, WHE has re-signed, Jeremy Howe hits his 2025 trigger when he plays his 250th game tomorrow night and an extension is being negotiated with Steene.

I'm reasonably confident that Markov also signed a one-year deal a couple of weeks ago. I'll see if I can find a link.
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