Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

is this the fault of tarkyn, or the defensive coaching staff who devise the set play from kick-ins?

you say we gain nothing. we gain possession. this is better than kicking it long to a contest, which may be turned over. true, buckley and clement do the long kick-ins better than lockyer, but again, this is a set play that's already been devised.

it's not easy to kick short. maybe to the pocket but not to a target within a zone set up by the opposition in your defending 50. it's not easy to hit a target in a nest of surrounding opposition players, but tarkyn is one of the best in the AFL at doing just that.

"..we flew at them as a hawk to his prey, passed through them in the disordered state in which they were, separated them into two distinct parts and then tacked upon their largest division.." -- Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, 1797

abi...is your theory now based on the value of the short kick in's or the value of tarken?

Tarken is not the only magpie who kicks short from full back...

THE PIES GO MARCHING ON

Hmmm......very interesting topic/discussion.
Let's look at some real facts.
Fact: Lockyer plays for Collingwood.
Fact: None of us do.
Fact: Locks kicks in as instructed by the coaching panel.
Fact: None of us are on the coaching panel.
Fact: Locks stuffs up.
Fact: So do we!
Fact: Locks is human.
Fact: So are we, finally, a match!
Fact: Locks will be wearing number 24 in vertical B&W stripes for a few years yet.
Fact: We will support him to the bitter end, and if we had scored 10 more points in September, this thread would not exist.

-Craig

People have only isolated one area where I analysed Tarkyn, but I will stand by my observation that it is not that difficult to spot someone who is standing unmarked in the back pocket and that doesn't get us far. That is Tarkyn's preferred modus operandi. I think his greatest asset is his fitness which allows his hard running but no other aspects of his game are world beating. How many coaches would have him anywhere near their best 20. Would he ever make a top fifty. My main comment was that he's fairly expendable unlike guys such as Tarrant, Buckley, Burns, Fraser, Clement, Lonie, Didak, Neon, McKee, Licuria, Wakelin, Presti, O'Bree. They are the nucleus of our premiership assault. And you would now add Woewodin and hope he can capture some of his 2000 form, not the relatively ordinary stuff of the past two years.

Pie fan forever

And I forgot Rocca of course. How many of you would argue with that lot being placed at a higher premium? If you agree you might see where "experts" think he really sits in the pecking order.

Pie fan forever

The short kick in to a man in the b/pocket is satndard operation for all 16 teams today.
The point being that the game has changed. Zones have made it harder for a man to free himself inside D50. Add to that the fact that the umps will now call the kicker to kick the ball, or else the penalty of a ball up shall apply, has made ALL teams position a loose player in the b/pocket.
The opposing team is happy to allow this kick to occur as they lose nothing in terms of field position.
To say, quote: "That is Tarkyn's preferred modus operandi." Unquote, is misleading. I've seen Buckley kick it short on many occasions. And it is a regular occurence in every match of AFL footy.
The fact that Locks has the confidence of the coach, and his teammates, is enough for me.

-Craig

tarkyn also had many tagging roles throughout the year even in the finals, therefore he did not have his usual freedom.
abi, would u rather want tarkyn to kick long to a pack and the opposition run out of fifty or kicking slowly setting it up and keeping possession of the ball.
tarkyn is a star and will play such an important part next year.

luv jess

No I wouldn't prefer he kick long and deliberately turn it over. I was merely pointing out to those who extol the virtues of Tarkyn being a great kick-in that the majority of his kicks are the compulsory kick to the man free in the pocket. Is that so difficult to understand? Is it? Who cares if most of the guys from other clubs also employ that strategy. The fact is the degree of difficulty is not high. Are you going to contest that fact. But when for eg. Clement kicks in he often spots a target 60 metres away and pinpoints it. I told you I surrendered this argument, Tarkyn is obviously a gun, he may well be the pivotal member of our flag. If Scotland leaves I know why though.

Pie fan forever

Abi I don't know why you're defending BUCKS, after all he started this topic!

I'll give this a rest after this post, don't forget that a turnover from a short kick is potentially far more damaging than from a long kick. And Cam just because only 14/26 long kicks were marked (by us or the opposition) does not mean the rest were out of bounds. Don't forget a kick in that goes over the line before being touched is a free. He could have been kicking to space or advantage.

Abi I admire your passion.


Go Pies!

anthony i'm not saying out of bounds and a free kick because that my friend would be classed as a turn over. i'm talking knocked out of bounds and i say that because there is another stat which is "kick in play on" which i assume means that the ball stays in play or results in a ball up. 12% (or 15/127) of lockyers total kick ins resulted in a play on situation. i stand by my deduction that 12/26 or nearly 50% of his long kick ins were knocked out of bounds somehow.

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

I believe its a little hard to tell with the kickout situation. We have a few who take these duties. Have you noticed when Clement kicks out it is usually a 60m kick to the left side of the ground? I'd imagine that is a set play. Have you noticed that when Bucks kicks out its usually either short and to the right or to someone about 45m out? Another instruction from the coaching panel. When Tarkyn kicks out more often than not they are short kicks.

My point is that IMO the whoever kicks out is under instruction from the coaching panel. If Tarkyn's job is to utilise the back pocket then he does it well......usually running on to receive a handpass and then kick again - anyone seen that play 100 times before? The short kick to the pocket doesn't appear to the untrained eye to have much effect. To the trained eye (not mine but the boys up in the coaching box) it has it's benefits.


My oxygen is Collingwood. Without it I die.

hehe! you can tell we are all bored and wanting the footy to start again when we are debating the virtues of the short kick to the back pocket. better than nothing i spose lol. if it was a set play all the time then the opposition could adjust their zone couldnt they? they see tark going to kick out - shit! move the zone toward goal 15 metres. then tark would be in two minds - do i follow instructions or call clemo over to kick instead of me.

no, tarkin looks up, his instructions are: if there is no-one free at 50-55m then go short. which he does well.and lets face it - better tarks kicking to lica 15 metres out than lica or benny j kicking to tarks.

personally i prefer tark carrying the ball along the wing and delivering it to our forwards at 50, same with ryan lonie. if bucks kicks out then often his tag has to stand the mark or man up in the back pocket so it takes a midfielder out of their midfield equation until bucks moves back into the centre. clemo for me is the kicker of choice he can go short and long.

Hard at it. The Collingwood way.

i don't really want to enter the debate but it seems to me that a "short kick" in the stats book - is that including kicking to oneself and playing on, then kicking it 65 meters out instead of 55? cause tarks did that a fair bit, especialy at the start of the year.

might scew the stats a bit.

- Ben

ps I think kicking to the back pocket is frustrating but necessary sometimes. Look next year to Clement kicking 0meters out to rocca, who doesn't mark but just thumps the ball as far as he can towards oour goals.

nice thought anyway...



Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

Absolutly no way Tarkyn is over rated, and i think all Collingwood supporters should get behind all the Collingwood players no matter what skill level.

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How much of a legend is Jason Cloke
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http://www.geocities.com/shauns20022002 ... llclub.htm

where do your loyalties lie Abi???? you *SAY* you barrack for collingwood but are prepared to slag off one of our best players with 100% NEGATIVE FEEDBACK.
you truly are pathetic, please go and barrack for richmond as their supporters are soooo similar to you its not funny!

TARKO TARKO MAN!
I WANT TO BE A TARKO MAN!