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Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:23 pm
by AN_Inkling
DaVe86 wrote: Ben Cousins was a no brainer. He should've been in black and white in 09.
Such a no-brainer, that only one club seems interested in him? Even their prolonged interest is uncertain (only assumed, just as Collingwood's was), especially if Collingwood has unearthed new information. Not to mention that Ben's comeback has yet to be cleared by the AFL.

There is so much information that you do not have at your disposal (how has Ben behaved in recent months? How comitted is he to playing for Collingwood? Do all, or most of the players want him at the club? How fit is he? Any injury concerns? If so, how serious are they? What's the likelihood of him using again? ...), that to label the decision a no-brainer, is simply brainless.

Couple the facts that are unknown to us, with the more qualitative judgements to be made - what impact will Ben have on the team? Do we want the constant increased media attention, and the almost assured "crisis" periods? What will the focus on Ben mean for the rest of our group, are there any negative affects to their development? What would the almost inevitable scandal(s) mean for sponsorhip dollars? - and it's clear to see the decision is far from a simple one.


It needs to be realised that we are still rebuilding. Sure, we've had more success during our rebuild than most, but that does not change the fact that our team is too young to be expected to challenge for a premiership in the next two years. It can certainly be hoped for and played for, but not expected.

If anything, the decision not to get Cousins was a no-brainer. There are risks with picking him up, and it is a massive distraction and likely disruption to the team. Just like the other rebuilding teams, we could have ruled him out earlier. However, because of our success during the rebuild, it's possible that at least some at the club thought that picking up Cousins could have allowed us to take the next step. This thought may have been tied with picking up a quality mid-aged player during trade week. Maybe, if we had have landed Green or O'Keefe we would have continued to pursue Cousins. One man can not make the difference, maybe two could have. I don't believe this hypothetical thought line. I think Cousins was only ever looked at as a stop-gap measure, as well as Malthouse wanting to help him recover.

For those who harp on about the rebuild being interminable. It is not. We have been rebuilding since 2005, maybe 2004. For comparison, the Hawks started theirs in 2001 with the drafting of Hodge (could be argued they started a couple of years earlier). Our rebuld is perfectly on track, and 3-4 years away from seriously expecting to challenge (again, it can happen earlier, but cannot be expected to), giving a similar or quicker rebuild time as the Hawks.

Given this, how many think the Hawks would have signed a 31 year old Cousins 3 years ago? Anyone? Didn't think so. Teams just over half way through their rebuild do not sign 31 year old players, period. It's likely the only reason we even considered him was because we've lost so much experience recently, or because of Malthouse.

Signing Cousins as a short-term stop gap would not have been a bad move. I certainly supported it. But, his behaviour leading up to his comeback, his commitment to the club, his role expectations as well as many other factors, would all need to have filled the club's requirements. The club have done their due dilligence and come out with the belief that this is not the case. This is the exact approach I wanted from them - certainly look at him, but if he doesn't "tick all the boxes" :wink:, then pull the plug. He needed us more than we needed him.


I'll address your comments regarding our list in a later post, this one's already long enough.

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:34 pm
by dids_04
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:Thank god no one takes any notice of your childish tantrums because you didn't get what you want.

Grow up you gormless uninspiring little garden gnome
and yet you go around telling people on here to give constructive debate and conversation and then you may listen.

One word - TOSSER. :lol: Care to answer my queston now? Nah, too hard for you? Truth hurts maybe?

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:39 pm
by dids_04
nomadjack wrote:He's already said why he chose Carlton. They had the early draft picks necessary to get the deal done and he didn't want to completely shaft West Coast if he could help it. Don't let reality stand in the way of a good footstomp though.
If you truly think that's the ONLY reason he chose Carlton.......my God we are in dire straits.

Yeah sure, Chris Judd hinged the rest of his career on the fact that Carlton had early draft picks and he cared about West Coast. :lol:

In case you didn't notice, West Coast did get shafted in that deal. Royally.

If Collingwood had put together a package of picks AND players, it could have landed Judd, provided he wanted to play for us. Lets get real, it wasn't impossible, as many of the delusional on here lead us to believe.

Read Malthouses comments on it in Black and White magazine at the end of last year.....

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 3:42 pm
by BJ
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Simone wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:
Alec,with all due respect,i dont think being critical of our great club,in a constructive manner,is at all bad.Just because people like jack,dids 4,and yes,me,do slam the Clubat times,,does NOT mean we love it any less than you.
Healthy critisims is a good thing,it keeps the club on its toes,if i was a head honcho at Pieland I would EXPECT to be slammed,if i made balls ups and stuffed up.Missing Cousins may be the good thing,but if it isnt,and he stars at the saints,we are going to look like damn fools.We missed out on Lockett thru some dumbo on the committee,and we missed out on Quinlan too years ago,that cost us the 79 flag.Never accept the line the "Club knows best,no matter what",that is as blind faith as the german people had,believing in Hitler regardless of what he did,and look what happened to Germany :!: :shock:
Hey, I'm all for constructive criticism, in fact I'd be the first to encourage it and to join in.

I have no doubt the club could/should do somethings better, but all I see on these boards is a huge bitch fest.

Don't get me wrong, there are some brilliant posters here, who post well thought out topics/issues (nomadjack, jmcp, madness, magpiegreg, david, sherriffe, joffa, Dr Alf, Morague(sp?), rocketronnie, pied piper, woftam, nulla etc etc)
These people post real issues not just whinging, whining bullshit.
Plus there is another group who come here with an agenda to do as much damage as possible to the Club, it is this group I detest.

If people think they can just get on here and spew vitriol and hatred without any comeback from reasoned posters they are wrong.
I for one will attack them and show them up for what they really are at every opportunity.

But yes, constructive criticism is not only good it is necessary
Sanctimonious jerk, now we have a self appointed "policeman" on Nicks doing his duty and weeding out the bad apples. Quick people to get on his "a list" better start towing the line.......
Oh, I see what you've done there

You taken what I said and replied with something completely different.

Nah, I think people will see it through it

Whinny ho bitch
LMAO

:lol:

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:03 pm
by Proud Pies
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Proud Pies wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:Thank god no one takes any notice of your childish tantrums because you didn't get what you want.

Grow up you gormless uninspiring little garden gnome
you know Frank, i'm really getting sick of your nasty attacks on posters when they don't agree with you.

Attack the post by all means, but you are constantly abusing people.
I'm really getting sick of your inability to follow a thread.
I was responding to a personal attack on me re; gutless

Now go back and read it then apologise to me
Yes, i've been following the thread, that's how i can tell you abuse people constantly, just like your doing now to me because i've brought it up.

yep, i saw where you called someone a gutless tooth fairy as well......no apology to you.....but you think that if someone calls you a name, it's your right to call one back
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
dids_04 wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:For what its worth,I have always rated Cousins,a fit clean version,the equal of Judd.That is what hurts,we could have had a" Judd." SIGH.
How could we have had Judd?
If they had wanted him and he wanted them, a deal WOULD have been done. Whatever it was.

He chose Carlton. Speaks volumes, not that you would admit that FFS.
Gutless tooth fairy wishing

GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:16 pm
by Alec. J. Hidell
Proud Pies wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Proud Pies wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:Thank god no one takes any notice of your childish tantrums because you didn't get what you want.

Grow up you gormless uninspiring little garden gnome
you know Frank, i'm really getting sick of your nasty attacks on posters when they don't agree with you.

Attack the post by all means, but you are constantly abusing people.
I'm really getting sick of your inability to follow a thread.
I was responding to a personal attack on me re; gutless

Now go back and read it then apologise to me
Yes, i've been following the thread, that's how i can tell you abuse people constantly, just like your doing now to me because i've brought it up.

yep, i saw where you called someone a gutless tooth fairy as well......no apology to you.....but you think that if someone calls you a name, it's your right to call one back
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
dids_04 wrote:
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:
Piesnchess wrote:For what its worth,I have always rated Cousins,a fit clean version,the equal of Judd.That is what hurts,we could have had a" Judd." SIGH.
How could we have had Judd?
If they had wanted him and he wanted them, a deal WOULD have been done. Whatever it was.

He chose Carlton. Speaks volumes, not that you would admit that FFS.
Gutless tooth fairy wishing

GROW UP THE LOT OF YOU
No, you still missed it didn't you?
You need to go back one more response to find where I was attacked FIRST.
That doesn't sit well with your biased view I know, but facts will always destroy bullshit.

In effect you have decided that I can be attacked first with abuse, but that I can't respond because you find it offensive when I do.

Heres a tip princess, I never use abuse UNLESS it is used on me first.
Go and do a search

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:28 pm
by Kingswood
I absolutely love An_Inkling's work. well done buddy

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:16 pm
by Proud Pies
Alec. J. Hidell wrote:Heres a tip princess, I never use abuse UNLESS it is used on me first.
Go and do a search
so what if a girl called you a name, you think it's right and fitting to then go ahead and abuse other posters because they don't agree with you or because someone called you a name, seems very childish to me. I don't need to do a search, i've seen it constantly with you.

And finally, someone recognises that i'm a pwincess :)

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:38 pm
by Lazza

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:32 pm
by rocketronnie
dids_04 wrote:
rocketronnie wrote:
dids_04 wrote: You won't win **** all without top quality players. I don't care what age they are or thei background. The way Cousins returned in 2007, with no pre season, should have been enough to take a punt on him.
And he broke down after, what was it? three games? He has had no proper pre-season, no match preparation, and hasn't played a serious game of footy for over twelve months. He is unprepared for any come-back and the talk that he is comes straight out of his management who you would expect to say that.

The breakdown in 07, shoud have told you something - that given his dilatory preparation again, he won't last the season or even perhaps half a season. That last hamstring tear was a nasty one, and unless his body is truly match hardened, its likely to go again - probably sooner rather than later as his body cannot stand the strain he puts on it...
do your homework first. 2007 wasn't that long ago......selective memory perhaps?
N

Nope... no selective memory... I did my homework. He played very well in the games in his first return but broke down because his body could n't take the strain he and the pace fo the game was putting on it. Which is why I say that, with a similar inadequate preparation leading into next year, I believe he wil break down seriously again...

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:48 pm
by Northern Pie
Rather than get in to the semantics over who insulted who and whether someone has a right to determine whose opinion is worthwhile or not, how about we just stick to the topic and drop the schoolyard name calling rubbish.

For those involved my standard advice of taking a bex and having a good lay down comes in to effect, anyone who decides to carry it on will be issued with a yellow card or cards which may eventuate in a Ban from the Bulletin Board..

Thank you for your time...

Cheers

Northern Pie for BBMods

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:58 pm
by Alec. J. Hidell
But my Dad's better than yours

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:09 pm
by jack_spain

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:19 pm
by Alec. J. Hidell
To whom do you refer?

Posted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:23 pm
by nomadjack
dids_04 wrote:
nomadjack wrote:He's already said why he chose Carlton. They had the early draft picks necessary to get the deal done and he didn't want to completely shaft West Coast if he could help it. Don't let reality stand in the way of a good footstomp though.
If you truly think that's the ONLY reason he chose Carlton.......my God we are in dire straits.

Yeah sure, Chris Judd hinged the rest of his career on the fact that Carlton had early draft picks and he cared about West Coast. :lol:

In case you didn't notice, West Coast did get shafted in that deal. Royally.

If Collingwood had put together a package of picks AND players, it could have landed Judd, provided he wanted to play for us. Lets get real, it wasn't impossible, as many of the delusional on here lead us to believe.

Read Malthouses comments on it in Black and White magazine at the end of last year.....
Pretty sure I didn't say anywhere it was the only reason or that it was impossible for us to pick him up. Why don't you show us what an absolute genius you are and tell us the magic package that would have got us across the line. Keeping in mind of course that Carlton had the whip hand over us and WC through having first choice in the pre-season draft.