Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board

DaVe86 wrote:Ben should go to Brisbane away from the spotlight. Here in Victoria, we have half the herald sun dedicated to Ben Cousins and his new haircut.


The Sun are no doubt on a mission to totally ruin this guy.

Ultimately, the conditions are there for Cousins. He either submits to them and plays AFL again, or he does not and he joins the retired list. The option is there for him.

Whether the AFL is right or wrong in taking a hardline approach is debatable. But Ben has no other option.

He has the potential to remind everyone how good he is. If it were me, I'd do anything to prove my value again...if it meant 2 years off drink/drugs and submitting to tests.

At the end of the day, as a recovering drug addict, you have the onus to prove you are off the drugs. So Cousins has to do everything he can to convince everyone he is clean. At the moment he is not.

The Herald Sun on a mission to totally ruin the guy ?


Are you serious ?


Oh i get it...

It was The Herald Sun who told the AFL to stick all future drug testing up their fat rats clacker..WOW..i better read the article again i must of missed that bit

DaVe86 wrote:Ben should go to Brisbane away from the spotlight. Here in Victoria, we have half the herald sun dedicated to Ben Cousins and his new haircut.


The Sun are no doubt on a mission to totally ruin this guy.

Ultimately, the conditions are there for Cousins. He either submits to them and plays AFL again, or he does not and he joins the retired list. The option is there for him.

Whether the AFL is right or wrong in taking a hardline approach is debatable. But Ben has no other option.

He has the potential to remind everyone how good he is. If it were me, I'd do anything to prove my value again...if it meant 2 years off drink/drugs and submitting to tests.

At the end of the day, as a recovering drug addict, you have the onus to prove you are off the drugs. So Cousins has to do everything he can to convince everyone he is clean. At the moment he is not.

Dave let's call it like it is.
Ben is getting so much publicity because the press feel as though things aren't as they appear to be with his rehab. Showing up to a hair follicle test with a skin head and a fully waxed body is also a sure way to keep the speculation fuelled. Why doesn't Ben step up and say I am ready to submit to any test to prove I am clean? It's simple, do the test and put all the innuendo to bed. For Ben to have gotten this far with his bid to find a new club ( remember psd is next month ) yet still has not passed a hair follicle test, nor has submitted to one should send alarm bells to any interested club.
I'm not judging him because he fell into the clutches of drugs.
The AFL has stated he must present himself drug free in order to be re registered. So for goodness sake prove it to everyone and do the test.
All we know so far is that he knows how to pass a urine test.

woftam wrote:

DaVe86 wrote:Ben should go to Brisbane away from the spotlight. Here in Victoria, we have half the herald sun dedicated to Ben Cousins and his new haircut.


The Sun are no doubt on a mission to totally ruin this guy.

Ultimately, the conditions are there for Cousins. He either submits to them and plays AFL again, or he does not and he joins the retired list. The option is there for him.

Whether the AFL is right or wrong in taking a hardline approach is debatable. But Ben has no other option.

He has the potential to remind everyone how good he is. If it were me, I'd do anything to prove my value again...if it meant 2 years off drink/drugs and submitting to tests.

At the end of the day, as a recovering drug addict, you have the onus to prove you are off the drugs. So Cousins has to do everything he can to convince everyone he is clean. At the moment he is not.

Dave let's call it like it is.
Ben is getting so much publicity because the press feel as though things aren't as they appear to be with his rehab. Showing up to a hair follicle test with a skin head and a fully waxed body is also a sure way to keep the speculation fuelled. Why doesn't Ben step up and say I am ready to submit to any test to prove I am clean? It's simple, do the test and put all the innuendo to bed. For Ben to have gotten this far with his bid to find a new club ( remember psd is next month ) yet still has not passed a hair follicle test, nor has submitted to one should send alarm bells to any interested club.
I'm not judging him because he fell into the clutches of drugs.
The AFL has stated he must present himself drug free in order to be re registered. So for goodness sake prove it to everyone and do the test.
All we know so far is that he knows how to pass a urine test.

Yes but was the urine test...

RANDOM

or Pre- arranged ?

jack_spain wrote:

The Collingwood Turtle wrote:Well said Jack.

As someone who is partial to a beer/bourbon I'm not going to howl down your views about alcohol cos they are spot on. I'll even state I have taken speed before in my youth a couple of times but it did nothing for me so I have never taken it since.

I know someone who was with a certain number of AFL players from one club (not Collingwood) during their end of season trip O/S.

Numerous players were flying and it had nothing to do with alcohol nor we're they on a QANTAS jumbo.

Seriously most football fans would be stunned as to how many players take Ecstasy or similar drugs as they are non weight gaining instead of drinking beer.

I enjoy a drink as much as anybody Turtle and would be the last person to say it should be banned. But I have never binged, and this is a much more serious problem for our youth than "party drugs". What I said is merely to highlight the breathtaking hypocrisy on drugs in our society.

Oh that's right, governments collect HUGE taxes on cigs and alcohol don't they! And then they spend millions on campaigns like, "Drink Drive, Bloody Idiot", "Quit", etc. to mop up the problems it causes.

The bottom line is this: The AFL is kidding itself if it thinks Benny Cousins is Robinson Crusoe!

Jack,i have smoked scome cannabiss in my youth,and i too love a beer and spirits,but all in moderation.But,you are right on the money,booze and smokes can be just as,maybe more lethal in large amounts,than what Benny was on.Hypocrisy reigns supreme in this crazy world of ours

joffa corfe wrote:

woftam wrote:

DaVe86 wrote:Ben should go to Brisbane away from the spotlight. Here in Victoria, we have half the herald sun dedicated to Ben Cousins and his new haircut.


The Sun are no doubt on a mission to totally ruin this guy.

Ultimately, the conditions are there for Cousins. He either submits to them and plays AFL again, or he does not and he joins the retired list. The option is there for him.

Whether the AFL is right or wrong in taking a hardline approach is debatable. But Ben has no other option.

He has the potential to remind everyone how good he is. If it were me, I'd do anything to prove my value again...if it meant 2 years off drink/drugs and submitting to tests.

At the end of the day, as a recovering drug addict, you have the onus to prove you are off the drugs. So Cousins has to do everything he can to convince everyone he is clean. At the moment he is not.

Dave let's call it like it is.
Ben is getting so much publicity because the press feel as though things aren't as they appear to be with his rehab. Showing up to a hair follicle test with a skin head and a fully waxed body is also a sure way to keep the speculation fuelled. Why doesn't Ben step up and say I am ready to submit to any test to prove I am clean? It's simple, do the test and put all the innuendo to bed. For Ben to have gotten this far with his bid to find a new club ( remember psd is next month ) yet still has not passed a hair follicle test, nor has submitted to one should send alarm bells to any interested club.
I'm not judging him because he fell into the clutches of drugs.
The AFL has stated he must present himself drug free in order to be re registered. So for goodness sake prove it to everyone and do the test.
All we know so far is that he knows how to pass a urine test.

Yes but was the urine test...

RANDOM

or Pre- arranged ?

i know for a fact Joffa that when the investigation into the WCE they found out that the players knew of the dates of urine tests and some tests were swapped around between players. Clubs do know when these things occur

I just find it incredible that there are currently 6 AFL players on 2 strikes and they do not have to be subjected to the same stringent testing that AFL wants Cuz to undertake.

I bet this is what is concerning the ALFPA too.

It's patently obvious the current AFL testing procedures are flawed given Cuz, as self-described substance abuser NEVER tested positive whilst playing.

Piesnchess wrote:

jack_spain wrote:

The Collingwood Turtle wrote:Well said Jack.

As someone who is partial to a beer/bourbon I'm not going to howl down your views about alcohol cos they are spot on. I'll even state I have taken speed before in my youth a couple of times but it did nothing for me so I have never taken it since.

I know someone who was with a certain number of AFL players from one club (not Collingwood) during their end of season trip O/S.

Numerous players were flying and it had nothing to do with alcohol nor we're they on a QANTAS jumbo.

Seriously most football fans would be stunned as to how many players take Ecstasy or similar drugs as they are non weight gaining instead of drinking beer.

I enjoy a drink as much as anybody Turtle and would be the last person to say it should be banned. But I have never binged, and this is a much more serious problem for our youth than "party drugs". What I said is merely to highlight the breathtaking hypocrisy on drugs in our society.

Oh that's right, governments collect HUGE taxes on cigs and alcohol don't they! And then they spend millions on campaigns like, "Drink Drive, Bloody Idiot", "Quit", etc. to mop up the problems it causes.

The bottom line is this: The AFL is kidding itself if it thinks Benny Cousins is Robinson Crusoe!

Jack,i have smoked scome cannabiss in my youth,and i too love a beer and spirits,but all in moderation.But,you are right on the money,booze and smokes can be just as,maybe more lethal in large amounts,than what Benny was on.Hypocrisy reigns supreme in this crazy world of ours

but booze and smokes are legal the afl are talking about illegal drugs or have i got it all wrong

Piesnchess wrote:

jack_spain wrote:

The Collingwood Turtle wrote:Well said Jack.

As someone who is partial to a beer/bourbon I'm not going to howl down your views about alcohol cos they are spot on. I'll even state I have taken speed before in my youth a couple of times but it did nothing for me so I have never taken it since.

I know someone who was with a certain number of AFL players from one club (not Collingwood) during their end of season trip O/S.

Numerous players were flying and it had nothing to do with alcohol nor we're they on a QANTAS jumbo.

Seriously most football fans would be stunned as to how many players take Ecstasy or similar drugs as they are non weight gaining instead of drinking beer.

I enjoy a drink as much as anybody Turtle and would be the last person to say it should be banned. But I have never binged, and this is a much more serious problem for our youth than "party drugs". What I said is merely to highlight the breathtaking hypocrisy on drugs in our society.

Oh that's right, governments collect HUGE taxes on cigs and alcohol don't they! And then they spend millions on campaigns like, "Drink Drive, Bloody Idiot", "Quit", etc. to mop up the problems it causes.

The bottom line is this: The AFL is kidding itself if it thinks Benny Cousins is Robinson Crusoe!

Jack,i have smoked scome cannabiss in my youth,and i too love a beer and spirits,but all in moderation.But,you are right on the money,booze and smokes can be just as,maybe more lethal in large amounts,than what Benny was on.Hypocrisy reigns supreme in this crazy world of ours

but booze and smokes are legal the afl are talking about illegal drugs or have i got it all wrong

2 things-
1) No one here knows whether Cousins ever tested positive, and the AFL has never said anything either way. When asked that question, I've never seen a straight answer from the AFL, and the AFLPA agreement means that information is confidential in all circumstances.
2) No one here knows what testing regime the players on 2 strikes have agreed to, for the same reason.

And if the AFL thought Cousins was Robinson Crusoe, they wouldn't have a testing regime, would they.

Chinaman John M wrote: but booze and smokes are legal the afl are talking about illegal drugs or have i got it all wrong

Geez my old China!

That IS the point. The hypocrisy of it all. I'll repeat, it is fact that many more people die each year from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol than ever do by all the other illegal drugs put together.

But this massively costly so-called war on drugs is targeted at a relatively minor problem.

I'll tell you what, more discredit was brought to the AFL this season from excessive drinkers not snorters!

Clearing the hyperbole away for a moment (mostly of the Iberian kind), this issue is about Cousins and no other player. Yes maybe there are six other players who have tested positive to tests twice but that testing positive is not tantamount to an addiction - it maybe but not necessarily so. i find it an inconsistent argument to burble on about the need to test those guys like Cousins is tested, at the same time carry on about the hypocrisy of it all yet make an assumption that because those guys have tested positive twice they are automatically addicts (Cousins on the other hand is a self confessed addict).

Three random or as directed urine screens a week is not overly onerous. Its a relatively common testing regime. I've recommended such regimes for court orders on offending drug users many times - two to three times a week screens is a common enough monitoring regime and not hard to fulfill - in fact its probably easier for Cousins than for most as he can do it at his new club facilities when he is there training, under the supervision of the club doctor.

I've generally found that the people who complain most about doing screens or who work to avoid them are usually those with something to hide. Urine samples can be flushed to mask results but that leads to higher, abnormal levels of a particular body chemical showing up and that leads to questions as it normally doesnt show up to such levels any other way. Screens are a very good way to monitor behaviour and those that are clean generally are mostly happy to do them if required. Its the dodgy ones who complain and avoid.

No matter the rights or wrongs of it the substances Cousins took were illegal and as such he is subject to a test regime to monitor his behaviour in order to assist every one involved (including him). Screens will show up excessive alcohol use and I'm sure if alcohol was consistently showing up in Cousin's results that would become a topic of conversation between the AFL. his club and him regarding excessive or problematic alcohol use.

I would certainly distrust anything R. Nixon said on the issue... he just wants his client to get off Scot free because he's paid to do that. The AFLPA, as usual, have no idea and are grandstanding per usual....

At the end of the day, the pudding will be in the eating...

It doesnt matter if the AFL is right or wrong to ask Cousins to submit to the testing...it doesnt matter if Cousins shaves his head or not.


The point is that it is now up to Cousins. The onus is on him to prove he is fit enough to play AFL again. The ball is in his court.

The AFL has set its guidelines. He can either whinge about it and therefore never play footy again because no one will touch him. Or he can submit to the testing...show his willingness to make sacrifices and become a top notch player.

If he stays off the drugs then there is no issue.

Submitting to so many urine tests probably means docs will be able to see things like alcohol use etc...so i can understand his hesitance to be so closely monitored....but if i were Cousins i'd be staying drug and alcohol free for some time.


But again, it doesnt matter if the conditions are fair or not. They are the rules so it is his chioce as to whether he wants to make the sacrifices and go on playing...or live life in privacy but never play AFL again.

jack_spain wrote:

Chinaman John M wrote: but booze and smokes are legal the afl are talking about illegal drugs or have i got it all wrong

Geez my old China!

That IS the point. The hypocrisy of it all. I'll repeat, it is fact that many more people die each year from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol than ever do by all the other illegal drugs put together.

But this massively costly so-called war on drugs is targeted at a relatively minor problem.

I'll tell you what, more discredit was brought to the AFL this season from excessive drinkers not snorters!

yer i understand that but arent we talking about the afl rules and not general social responsibilities
i think wot you say is right but wot does that have to do with the rules the afl have put inplace for cuzz
if the afl say to cuzz no drugs then thats it
the afl cant ban smokes and booze coz its legal

Chinaman John M wrote:

jack_spain wrote:

Chinaman John M wrote: but booze and smokes are legal the afl are talking about illegal drugs or have i got it all wrong

Geez my old China!

That IS the point. The hypocrisy of it all. I'll repeat, it is fact that many more people die each year from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol than ever do by all the other illegal drugs put together.

But this massively costly so-called war on drugs is targeted at a relatively minor problem.

I'll tell you what, more discredit was brought to the AFL this season from excessive drinkers not snorters!

yer i understand that but arent we talking about the afl rules and not general social responsibilities
i think wot you say is right but wot does that have to do with the rules the afl have put inplace for cuzz
if the afl say to cuzz no drugs then thats it
the afl cant ban smokes and booze coz its legal

Free Ben Cousins! Sez Jackie Spain... of course if Cousins doesn't play because of the strictures the AFL impose on him, there goes Spain's Anti-Eddie/Cousins campaign down the gurgler and also a strong implication coming out of it that the club was probably right all along...

He has put out a statement saying that he's fit, healthy and looking forward to playing football again, and that he will nominate for the draft.

Doesn't sound as if he's thinking of walking away .