New refugee laws
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Wokko ![Pisces Pisces](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_pisces.gif)
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Interesting that so many refugess will bypass any country without a robust social welfare program and universal healthcare to reach Australia or Western Europe. I wondered this and looked at one example, Tamils who leave for Australia on boats via Indonesia instead of going to a Tamil state in the South of India.
"It's often older people and the unskilled who come here," said a strategic analyst in Chennai, R. Hariharan, a retired colonel. "People who can't afford to pay the huge sums its takes to get to Australia or Canada."
I would rather take Burmese refugees who have sitting in camps in Thailand, some for 30 years.
Refugees have become a smokescreen for 'normal' immigration, both legal and illegal that many people also want curtailed but are too scared to bring up without being branded a 'racist'. So their anger is directed at those who have been made a 'safe' target due to the political discourse. I'd personally have a national conversation on all immigration, but we can't deny the mining industry those 457s. |
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HAL
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I often wonder about this and looked at one example Tamils who leave for Australia on boats via Indonesia of going to a Tamil state in the South of India too. |
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Tannin ![Capricorn Capricorn](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_capricorn.gif)
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Wokko wrote: | Refugees have become a smokescreen for 'normal' immigration, both legal and illegal that many people also want curtailed but are too scared to bring up without being branded a 'racist'. So their anger is directed at those who have been made a 'safe' target due to the political discourse. I'd personally have a national conversation on all immigration, but we can't deny the mining industry those 457s. |
Exactly! _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
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David wrote: | But you don't even know for a fact that there are conmen or terrorists there, so are you willing to keep a whole lot of innocent people locked up on the off-chance there might be?
And since when is it okay to persecute innocent people for any reason?
Tannin wrote: | ^ the only refugees who can afford to get here by boat are the wealthiest ones. They may or may not be deserving of our help - that doubtless varies from one individual to another - but no matter how you judge that matter, there can be no question but that they are much less in need of our help than many thousands, probably millions of others who, for some unexplained reason, the latte-sipping SBS mafia do not care about in the slightest. |
That's irrelevant. However "rich" or privileged these particular refugees happen to be—a good deal less wealthy than anyone posting here, that's for sure—they are not illegal immigrants. And they and their children certainly do not deserve to be locked up on an island for the crime of trying to find a safe place to live. |
Ok, so how many you got room for at your place? They don't take up much space. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko ![Pisces Pisces](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_pisces.gif)
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pietillidie
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What, did Julie Bishop's efforts to place the moral burden of world people movements on Cambodia fall through?
Pitiful, juvenile, and irresponsible; Tony Abbott to a T and his only hope of re-election. C'mon, get out there and stomp on some brownish-yellowish-Muslimish fingers, you moral giants.
Let's make these poor buggers bigger than Abbott's failed economy to save the bastard! _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
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HAL
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Is that a rhetorical question? |
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David ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
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think positive wrote: | David wrote: | But you don't even know for a fact that there are conmen or terrorists there, so are you willing to keep a whole lot of innocent people locked up on the off-chance there might be?
And since when is it okay to persecute innocent people for any reason?
Tannin wrote: | ^ the only refugees who can afford to get here by boat are the wealthiest ones. They may or may not be deserving of our help - that doubtless varies from one individual to another - but no matter how you judge that matter, there can be no question but that they are much less in need of our help than many thousands, probably millions of others who, for some unexplained reason, the latte-sipping SBS mafia do not care about in the slightest. |
That's irrelevant. However "rich" or privileged these particular refugees happen to be—a good deal less wealthy than anyone posting here, that's for sure—they are not illegal immigrants. And they and their children certainly do not deserve to be locked up on an island for the crime of trying to find a safe place to live. |
Ok, so how many you got room for at your place? They don't take up much space. |
I never said you needed to give up your spare room. We have plenty of social housing throughout Australia, and many asylum seekers will be able to rent their own accommodation when they get a job.
These are all silly justifications. You're a compassionate person; do you really think the government is doing the right thing here? _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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pietillidie
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I would just like to know, aside from the intervention of Jesus or angels or pixies and elves, how people know that X asylum seeker who may or may not be fleeing death but had the resources or relatives or just luck to make it to Australia is somehow less "deserving" than person Y who is in a refugee camp and may or may not be presently safer than X asylum seeker who may or may not have been extremely unlucky to miss the queue which may or may not have existed?
The stories people tell themselves.
There is no other responsible action but to assess claims humanely and shoulder some of the global people movement burden. Once we do that, we then have the moral authority to start acting regionally and working with countries such as Japan, South Korea and even China (believe it or not) who all face greying populations.
Moreover, China wanted to start a development bank which itself would help to underpin stability elsewhere, but idiot face refused to take part in it, much to Paul Keating's disgust.
This hysteria of this issue truly is a measure of Australian meatheadedness, and it is the wedge that could very easily get the country Abbott after Abbott as national leader, cementing infinitely bigger problems than asylum seekers in a nation that has done extremely well out of immigration.
Narrow minds failing to see the bigger picture is hardly a new problem, however. _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
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1061
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David wrote: |
I never said you needed to give up your spare room. We have plenty of social housing throughout Australia, and many asylum seekers will be able to rent their own accommodation when they get a job. |
I've seen reverse discrimination in action at a workplace, it's real.
Quote: | And about 25,000 people currently living in Australia on bridging visas will be given the right to work. |
This has got to make Gina happy.
She'll have her teams out looking for workers willing to work for a little or a lot less than she actually has to pay if they were in the "system". |
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think positive ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
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David wrote: | think positive wrote: | David wrote: | But you don't even know for a fact that there are conmen or terrorists there, so are you willing to keep a whole lot of innocent people locked up on the off-chance there might be?
And since when is it okay to persecute innocent people for any reason?
Tannin wrote: | ^ the only refugees who can afford to get here by boat are the wealthiest ones. They may or may not be deserving of our help - that doubtless varies from one individual to another - but no matter how you judge that matter, there can be no question but that they are much less in need of our help than many thousands, probably millions of others who, for some unexplained reason, the latte-sipping SBS mafia do not care about in the slightest. |
That's irrelevant. However "rich" or privileged these particular refugees happen to be—a good deal less wealthy than anyone posting here, that's for sure—they are not illegal immigrants. And they and their children certainly do not deserve to be locked up on an island for the crime of trying to find a safe place to live. |
Ok, so how many you got room for at your place? They don't take up much space. |
I never said you needed to give up your spare room. We have plenty of social housing throughout Australia, and many asylum seekers will be able to rent their own accommodation when they get a job.
These are all silly justifications. You're a compassionate person; do you really think the government is doing the right thing here? |
in all honesty I think the whole thing is wrong. unfortunately I cant see any solution, but turning boats back or locking people up or you open the flood gates. while some places on earth (im putting it that way to avoid being accused of any kind of bias) still have millions living not in poverty but literally on the life or death line, I cant justify letting people in on their word that they need help. some really really do. but some don't. how do you sort it, do you have a solution? _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw ![Leo Leo](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_leo.gif)
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^^^ giving effect to the obligations Australia voluntarily assumed under the Refugees Convention, instead of pretending they don't really exist, would be a reasonable start. |
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Tannin ![Capricorn Capricorn](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_capricorn.gif)
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^^^ So far as the convention goes, nearly all the arrivals by boat are NOT subject to the Refugee Convention because they are not directly fleeing (which is the circumstance the convention covers), they have already fled to another country (such as Indonesia) and are now looking to move on to somewhere else, usually a rich country like Australia. The convention does not oblige us to do anything in this case.
The convention ONLY applies in cases where the asylum seeker travels directly from their home country to Australia. Some of the Sri Lankan boats thus qualify, but the vast majority of boat arrivals do not.
Providing homes to boat arrivals is like rescuing only those survivors from a shipwreck who were able to buy, bribe, or steal a lifebuoy or fight their way onto the safety of a raft, leaving all the drowning swimmers to their fate. _________________ �Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
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^ Though some might say that it's still better than pushing the people in lifebuoys back overboard while giving the finger to everyone else in the water.
Oh, and if we're to stretch the metaphor, cordoning off 75% of the rescue vessel so that Rupert Murdoch can park his luxury car. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie ![Gemini Gemini](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_gemini.gif)
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Tannin and Wokka (now that's an unlikely couple) are doing a great job IMO in responding to the usual stuff on this topic. I completely agree with them and have little extra to add.
So, rather than just believe the Guardians typically exaggerated and alarmist take on the legislation, read about it here and make your own opinion.
http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=r5346 _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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