Deportation
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests Registered Users: None |
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | Morrigu wrote: | David wrote: | The fact is, the vast majority of crimes in this country are committed by born and bred true blue fair dinkum throw a shrimp on the barbie Aussies. That has always been the case and always will be the case. |
I am curious to know how you can state this as fact as it is my understanding that the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research currently doesnt collect information on the ethnic background of offenders - do you have a source for this fact? |
http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi_pdf/tandi117.pdf
Scroll down to the top of page 5. This is an old table (1983-1997), but I doubt that things would have changed significantly since; immigrants still only constitute a small percentage of the overall population. I expect you'd see greater numbers coming from places such as Sudan and Afghanistan now, but still probably numbering under 1%.
Percentage of offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 76.9%
UK/Ireland: 4.0%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 2.4%
Italy: 0.8%
Percentage of violent offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 79.8%
UK/Ireland: 4.4%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 1.2%
Former Yugoslavia: 0.8% |
Again with this bullshit. Once you have those figures you then need to find the ratio of crimes committed vs the size of that population. You're as dishonest as Christine Nixon, or just clueless about statistics. |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
Post subject: | |
|
David wrote: | Morrigu wrote: | David wrote: | The fact is, the vast majority of crimes in this country are committed by born and bred true blue fair dinkum throw a shrimp on the barbie Aussies. That has always been the case and always will be the case. |
I am curious to know how you can state this as fact as it is my understanding that the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research currently doesnt collect information on the ethnic background of offenders - do you have a source for this fact? |
http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi_pdf/tandi117.pdf
Scroll down to the top of page 5. This is an old table (1983-1997), but I doubt that things would have changed significantly since; immigrants still only constitute a small percentage of the overall population. I expect you'd see greater numbers coming from places such as Sudan and Afghanistan now, but still probably numbering under 1%.
Percentage of offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 76.9%
UK/Ireland: 4.0%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 2.4%
Italy: 0.8%
Percentage of violent offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 79.8%
UK/Ireland: 4.4%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 1.2%
Former Yugoslavia: 0.8% |
Of some interest although very outdated and you can doubt, expect, presume as much as you like - there is no actual reputable conclusive data or evidence available at all to support your statement " it is a fact" - always has been and always will be" - I am not arguing what ethnic groups may or may not be responsible for greater criminality or that it may be the case that those born in Australia commit a greater number of crimes - what I take issue with is you stating " your opinion" as " fact" - it is not fact end of story!
Oxford Dictionary:
Fact - A thing that is known or proved to be true
Opinion- A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge _________________ âThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.â |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
Wokko and Stui, the mistake you're making is that I'm not making any claims regarding proportionality. My assertion is based on sheer weight of numbers, and the reasonable presumption that the immigration rate will not rise significantly in the foreseeable future. "All the migration from Muslim countries" still accounts for only 2% of the Australian population (well, actually, the total percentage of Muslims is 2.2%; considering that a decent number of those would have been born here, the percentage of Muslim immigrants is even smaller).
Morrigu, my opinion is 'fact', in this instanceare you seriously suggesting that the rate of crime committed by people born outside Australia could conceivably have reached 50%? Clearly, it's nowhere near that.
Of course, it would be helpful if police and government sources made these statistics more easily available. Though there may be more recent chartsthat was just the first one I found.
(I do acknowledge that my reference to 'true blue Aussies' could have been interpreted as a reference to ethnicity; I was referring to all Australian-born Australians. Remember that this discussion began with the issue of deportation. The question of whether your parents came from overseas is irrelevant to that issue.)
stui magpie wrote: | Immigrants are a small percentage of the overall population. FFS, do some fact checks can you?
So better than 25% of the current population was born overseas.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/3412.0Chapter12011-12%20and%202012-13
That tends to flatten out the bullshit argument about percentage of criminals by where they were born, doesn't it? 1/4 of the population is a "small" percentage? |
Perhaps I did overstate the proportions, but this actually aids my argument: if I'm reading that chart in the link above correctly, it suggests that somewhere between 20-25% of Australia's population in 1997 were born overseas. If you look at the crime rates above, that seems to suggest that offending rates between Australian-born Australians and non-Australian born Australians are nearly exactly the same. Which means that the concept that the immigrant community needs to be 'weeded out' of criminals is totally wrong: the average immigrant is more or less equally likely to commit a crime as the average Australian-born Australian. There is no other significant justification for pursuing aggressive deportation policies than "because we can". _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
|
|
|
Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
|
Post subject: | |
|
David your opinion is just opinion it is not fact - if and when you come up with reputable conclusive evidence to prove that your opinion is fact then I will be happy to revisit it.
You seriously need to learn more about statistics and accurately interpreting them - and you need to understand that data capture in this area is woeful and inaccurate.
I give you one example in the last WEEK 8 inmates of the correctional facility my brother works at had reviews of their recorded status amended as they had claimed they were Indigenous or Torres Strait Islanders - 3 were Islanders, 2 were Maori and 3 were Somali lol - yep - good quality stats there _________________ âThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.â |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
Morrigu wrote: | David wrote: | Morrigu wrote: | David wrote: | The fact is, the vast majority of crimes in this country are committed by born and bred true blue fair dinkum throw a shrimp on the barbie Aussies. That has always been the case and always will be the case. |
I am curious to know how you can state this as fact as it is my understanding that the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research currently doesnt collect information on the ethnic background of offenders - do you have a source for this fact? |
http://www.aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/tandi_pdf/tandi117.pdf
Scroll down to the top of page 5. This is an old table (1983-1997), but I doubt that things would have changed significantly since; immigrants still only constitute a small percentage of the overall population. I expect you'd see greater numbers coming from places such as Sudan and Afghanistan now, but still probably numbering under 1%.
Percentage of offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 76.9%
UK/Ireland: 4.0%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 2.4%
Italy: 0.8%
Percentage of violent offences committed by country of birth (1997):
Australia: 79.8%
UK/Ireland: 4.4%
New Zealand: 2.8%
Vietnam: 1.2%
Former Yugoslavia: 0.8% |
Of some interest although very outdated and you can doubt, expect, presume as much as you like - there is no actual reputable conclusive data or evidence available at all to support your statement " it is a fact" - always has been and always will be" - I am not arguing what ethnic groups may or may not be responsible for greater criminality or that it may be the case that those born in Australia commit a greater number of crimes - what I take issue with is you stating " your opinion" as " fact" - it is not fact end of story!
Oxford Dictionary:
Fact - A thing that is known or proved to be true
Opinion- A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge |
Nah, what my wife says is fact & what I say is opinion _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
|
|
|
|
swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
|
Post subject: | |
|
I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking are just a few things off the top of my head which I feel first generation Australians or migrants would be over represented in.
This country feels far more violent than it was 20 to 30 years ago and the one constant during that period would be a further growth in ethnic proportionality.
Perhaps people with seemingly different ways of life, belief systems, personal experiences and religious backgrounds just weren't meant to mix together in large amounts.
We are far more multicultural than most if not all of the countries most of our migrants come from these days and I dare say we wouldn't be afforded the same tolerance in large parts of Asia, the Middle East and Africa if we descended on mass but the question is how much more multicultural can we become until the values this country were founded on become lost in a maze of good intentions and white liberal guilt.
I don't want a big Australia, do you?
Allahu Akbar. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking are just a few things off the top of my head which I feel first generation Australians or migrants would be over represented in.
This country feels far more violent than it was 20 to 30 years ago and the one constant during that period would be a further growth in ethnic proportionality.
Perhaps people with seemingly different ways of life, belief systems, personal experiences and religious backgrounds just weren't meant to mix together in large amounts.
We are far more multicultural than most if not all of the countries most of our migrants come from these days and I dare say we wouldn't be afforded the same tolerance in large parts of Asia, the Middle East and Africa if we descended on mass but the question is how much more multicultural can we become until the values this country were founded on become lost in a maze of good intentions and white liberal guilt.
I don't want a big Australia, do you?
Allahu Akbar. |
Spot on Tyrion _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking.... a..... |
And that's just my neighbours _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
|
Post subject: | |
|
watt price tully wrote: | swoop42 wrote: | I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking.... a..... |
And that's just my neighbours |
Your wife is right _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
think positive wrote: | watt price tully wrote: | swoop42 wrote: | I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking.... a..... |
And that's just my neighbours |
Your wife is right |
That's what I like to let her believe too _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
Post subject: | |
|
Need a match? _________________ âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
|
Post subject: | |
|
swoop42 wrote: | I bet if the police were allowed to report the truth then the statistics would back up my gut feel from decades of watching and reading news reports.
Violent home invasions, kidnapping, gang related violence, organised crime, drive by shootings, major drug importation, multi person assaults, gang rape, people trafficking are just a few things off the top of my head which I feel first generation Australians or migrants would be over represented in.
This country feels far more violent than it was 20 to 30 years ago and the one constant during that period would be a further growth in ethnic proportionality.
Perhaps people with seemingly different ways of life, belief systems, personal experiences and religious backgrounds just weren't meant to mix together in large amounts.
We are far more multicultural than most if not all of the countries most of our migrants come from these days and I dare say we wouldn't be afforded the same tolerance in large parts of Asia, the Middle East and Africa if we descended on mass but the question is how much more multicultural can we become until the values this country were founded on become lost in a maze of good intentions and white liberal guilt.
I don't want a big Australia, do you?
Allahu Akbar. |
The idea that our society is getting more violent is a popular myth that gets constantly disproved. In fact, the direct opposite is true.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2012/03/04/violent-crimes-decrease-across-australia
I'm not surprised your gut tells you otherwise; reading mainstream newspapers will have that effect, because it's exactly what they want you to think. What you're describing is pretty much the basic mechanics of conservative ideologythat is, "things were better in the olden days", before the Muslims started showing up, and before that the Vietnamese, and before that the Greeks, and before that the Catholics... _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
Post subject: | |
|
By "we" do you mean you and me? I double dare you. |
|
|
|
|
ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand
|
Post subject: | |
|
Why would anyone use statistics to base any argument on ethnic crimes? Bloody useless.
Most Australians of European descent, particularly British, will report crime to the Police. Because there is a reasonable prospect of property recovery, insurance payouts, punishment of offenders and compensation. So these all get thrown in the stats. What won't be in there are victimless crimes, and crimes on criminals. Noone is going to report there weed plant was stolen or a kiddy porn collection. Those figures are too small anyway to be meaningful and too be honest who really cares.
Can we rely on statistics that did not include institutional crime such as the child molestation rings that operated within church and state run organisations that not only covered up the crime but harboured the criminal and punished the victim.
Do these stats include the Chinese triads who run loan sharking, sex slavery and extortion within the Chinese communities. I think not.
Those seeking refuge, the legitimate ones, from Sudan, Afhganistan and in the past the Cambodians and Vietnamese have a fear of police. If they get bashed in the street by one of their own and robbed of 50 bucks they front up to casualty, get treated and go home. They will not report it to police. They may seek other forms of retaliation within there own community.
Many of the Italians post second world war allowed the Mafia to flourish. Having lived under Mussolini they didn't trust coppers and the Mafia could bring the wrong doer to "justice'. Aided and abetted by a church that grew rich on the proceeds.
And now we are dealing with idiots who allow their 12 year old daughters to marry 27 year olds because they believe that Sharia law is higher than the Australian law and he was worried about her having sex. Whilst he and the "husband" will do time it makes you wonder if this is an isolated case. Or will it be driven underground now as will the equally odious female genital mutilation.
The soft migrants, the Greeks etc who came over to work on the great project like the Snowy river scheme and the like were largely happy to have an honest police system and once language problems were overcome it was all good. But who knows what crimes were never reported.
Had it all be detected and correctly acted on I am sure that the deportation in the past of some Nazis, SS guards, Irish pedophile priests, sex slavers and loan sharks would hardly of worried most of us then and now
Now tell me which part of the statistics is going to be adjusted to include the slaves working in illegal brothels, the kids forced to work in family sweatshops to pay off Dads gambling debts, the muslim 13 year old getting raped nightly by a 30 year old "husband', the little girl being mutilated by a non medically trained Iman the 9 year old who still wets the bed because his local clergyman is touching him up and his Mum doesn't believe him.
It is best if you want to spout bullshit using statistics you start using the really damning ones which are the crime rate and imprisonment figures for the remnants of our Indigeneous people. _________________ Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
|
|