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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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I know the greening incident is bad but I have seen a few given out by us.
Re Banksy on a certain Carlton player. _________________ we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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True but Banks was retaliating after Rhys-Jones split his eyebrow open with an elbow a minute beforehand. You could call it a heat of the moment incident and Rhys also suffered no lasting damage (probably luckily).
Greening was a ball player and cleanskin who was deliberately targeted unnecessarily behind play, was nearly killed and hardly ever played again and never at the level he once did.
The closest Collingwood incident to the Greening one was the Duncan Wright-John Sommerville incident and Duncan Wright was booted out of our club without playing another game as soon as it happened and good riddance to him. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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That wasn't done on team orders and the target was a known thug and sniper. Every genuine football follower thought that was a good outcome and entirely appropriate. Greening was the ultimate ball player and O'Dea's disgusting act was like shooting Bambi.
Edit: Flashman, I agree. I didn't see your post before I hit "submit". |
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piester
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Location: Abbotsford
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Would have thought Billy Picken would have been in there somewhere. But a top 10 is always going to be a subjective assessment. But on talent alone Greening would have to be there. _________________ Is there any place you would rather be, than with me at the MCG? |
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mudlark
Joined: 19 Mar 2002 Location: Maroochydore Qld
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Flashman wrote: | Didn't see Carmen play but I have a hard time believing he was a better player in his 60 odd games for us than Buckley, Pendlebury, Brown, Swan etc have been. I appreciate he had massive ability but the stats don't bare out that he was even close to the true greats of our club.
Still it's Shawry's list and I can't fault any of the other names he has on it. |
Let me tell you Flashman,Phill Carmen ,who is my best ever player and I've seen Collingwood play from around 60 to the present and my heroes were all in there,Terry Waters Thorold Merrett, Des Tuddenham ,Peter McKenna and so on.But fabulous was something else.easily the best player I've seen.Had it all.high flier,tough,kick either foot ,kick accurately from 60 and didn't give a stuff.No.1 for me. Obviously had problems but JEEZ he was good. |
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Bucks2014
Joined: 15 Feb 2014
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Like this thread, I was born early 70's and can remember the 77 grand finals, but really my best would be 79 onwards.
My list will probably have a couple of favourite players in my early years.
1. Daics, magician wore his number for years.
2. Buckley, we were a rubbish team for years but he made it worthwhile to watch.
3. Pendlebury, never panics my favourite all time Pie.
4. Millane, what couldn't he do.
5. Tony Shaw, captain courageous
6. Micky McGuane, terrific footballer.
7. James Clement, beautiful kick and read the play the same.
8. Dane Swan, unfashionable but just gets it done.
9. Scott Burns, tough as nails.
10. Ricky Barham, yep one of my favourites from the early years. Can still visualise him running along the wing. All those grand finals for zilch. _________________ "Still waiting for your call Caroline ... not a quote in sight. Don't ever presume to speak on Collingwood's behalf," |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Flashman wrote: | True but Banks was retaliating after Rhys-Jones split his eyebrow open with an elbow a minute beforehand. You could call it a heat of the moment incident and Rhys also suffered no lasting damage (probably luckily).
Greening was a ball player and cleanskin who was deliberately targeted unnecessarily behind play, was nearly killed and hardly ever played again and never at the level he once did.
The closest Collingwood incident to the Greening one was the Duncan Wright-John Sommerville incident and Duncan Wright was booted out of our club without playing another game as soon as it happened and good riddance to him. |
... Whereas St Kilda made O'Dea a life member. That pretty much sums them up as a club. I don't like Carlton, but St Kilda is the club I would abolish if I ruled the world. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Location: Benalla
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Can someone remind me what Greening did as a centre man-on baller? how many goals did he kick?
Trying to elevate him above the great one needs explanation, and the vibe won't do, if he was better than Daicos he must have averaged over 3 goals a game.
did he have better skills than Daicos? Lol
Was he more versatile? Lol
Was he more evasive? Oops, try again
Was he more of a match winner? Don't think so _________________ Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Location: London, England
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Bucks2014 wrote: | 10. Ricky Barham, yep one of my favourites from the early years. Can still visualise him running along the wing. All those grand finals for zilch. |
My old man talks about Barham being an unrecognised champ.
How disappointed were you when Jaxons career didn't kick off? _________________ A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Presti35
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001 Location: London, England
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thompsoc wrote: | Yes Shane Woewoeful was one of a kind.
Won a Brownlow and then fell off a cliff and landed in our lap. |
Its a pity he didn't win the Brownlow for us. I mean crap players don't win Brownlows do they? It would have been somewhat of a get back for Peter Moore winning one at the Dees.
He was supposed to be the missing piece to our 2002 campaign. And I thought he had a pretty good season in 2003. He kicked an early one in the 03 GF, but after that he, like most of the team, he didn't do anything.
His 04 was not as good as 03. He would have been 28 at the time, so Im not sure what happened. He did play all 22 games however. Maybe he was a confidence player and new the club was gutted in 2004. You could tell that the list had its chance and missed it.
In 2005 he would become the first Brownlow winner to ever be omitted. And it happened after 7 rounds. He was in and out for the rest of that year. I do believe the Roos came close to taking him in the pre season draft, but nothing came of it. Perhaps if there was a free agency back then, then he might have found a third home for a year or two?
Still 200 AFL games and a Brownlow is a decent effort. Id say 25 of his 60 odd games with Collingwood were very good. His final season was quite bad. A sad way to end a career. Shame really.
Does anyone remember what we traded for him? (Edit, just looked it up. Pick 14 which Melbourne used on Daniel Bell). _________________ A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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Bob Sugar wrote: | Can someone remind me what Greening did as a centre man-on baller? how many goals did he kick?
Trying to elevate him above the great one needs explanation, and the vibe won't do, if he was better than Daicos he must have averaged over 3 goals a game.
did he have better skills than Daicos? Lol
Was he more versatile? Lol
Was he more evasive? Oops, try again
Was he more of a match winner? Don't think so |
Daicos kicked most of his goals playing as a permanent forward, naturally and not when he was a centreman. He went at about a goal a game as a centreman (still very good) so let's not carry on like he was an onballer kicking 90 goals in a year because he didn't.
Greening averaged more possessions per game, more marks and his career was ended by and large when it probably had another 200 games to go. Who know's what his figures and achievements would have looked like suffice to say he was already a superb footballer and getting better when it was ended at 22.
Daicos is one of the best players ever no question. I don't get why you need to resort to sarcastic comparisons to put down another great of our club (one I'm guessing you probably didn't even see play).
I love threads like this and reading what some of the older supporters have to say about some of the legends of our club that they were privileged to see play and I wasn't. Maybe you should read it and enjoy it and learn something without trying to turn it into a pissing contest about why your player was better than theirs. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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Flashman wrote: | Bob Sugar wrote: | Can someone remind me what Greening did as a centre man-on baller? how many goals did he kick?
Trying to elevate him above the great one needs explanation, and the vibe won't do, if he was better than Daicos he must have averaged over 3 goals a game.
did he have better skills than Daicos? Lol
Was he more versatile? Lol
Was he more evasive? Oops, try again
Was he more of a match winner? Don't think so |
Daicos kicked most of his goals playing as a permanent forward, naturally and not when he was a centreman. He went at about a goal a game as a centreman (still very good) so let's not carry on like he was an onballer kicking 90 goals in a year because he didn't.
Greening averaged more possessions per game, more marks and his career was ended by and large when it probably had another 200 games to go. Who know's what his figures and achievements would have looked like suffice to say he was already a superb footballer and getting better when it was ended at 22.
Daicos is one of the best players ever no question. I don't get why you need to resort to sarcastic comparisons to put down another great of our club (one I'm guessing you probably didn't even see play).
I love threads like this and reading what some of the older supporters have to say about some of the legends of our club that they were privileged to see play and I wasn't. Maybe you should read it and enjoy it and learn something without trying to turn it into a pissing contest about why your player was better than theirs. |
Correct, Flash. I don't rate Greening higher than Daicos, but he was probably in the top 5 of this list. By round 13 when he was nearly killed by that mongrel, he amassed 14 Brownlow votes in a side of outstanding footballers. He probably would have won it, that year, and he was 22. It's very hard to compare two careers which were so utterly different, but for raw footballing talent exposed, Greening's career puts him in the highest echelon.
The denigrating tone of Bob Sugar's post is completely unnecessary. i'm confident that Peter Diacos -always modest and generous - would be appalled by it. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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I think the difference between Greening and Daicos is that Daicos was a more limited all-round player - what he did well he probably did better than Greening but Greening was way faster, a brilliant overhead mark and, when he cut loose, quite unstoppable because he simply couldn't be matched up physically. Because he was so gifted in so many ways, if you were previewing a game in which Daicos played on Greening, both at their peak, you'd reasonably expect Greening to win the dual hands down because they both had startling ball skills, read the game like a book and kicked beautifully but Greening was bigger, stronger, faster and better overhead.
I don't recall Greening playing as a permanent forward. He played the wing, ruck-roved (which, in those days, meant resting on the HFF when you weren't on the ball) and, very occasionally, in the centre. Thus, most of Greening's best work was done well away from the goals. So, when he bagged a six or a seven, you knew that it was a reasonable effort because he was doing it in the general run of play, typically bursting away from a pack. Daicos kicked great bags of goals but he never did that whilst also having 40+ kicks, as Greening did.
Some indication of how perfect an all-round player Greening was may be found in what he did when he finally left Collingwood. He turned out at CHB for Port Melbourne for a year or two (in the days when the VFA was a proper competition of a good standard) and starred there in a winning GF or two. Whatever talent Daicos had, it would never have occurred to even the dumbest of coaches to play him as a KPD. Greening did and did it with astonishing ease.
All that said, I'm with Mudlark in the Carman camp - not just as the most talented Collingwood player I've seen but as the most talented player of all. It is a tragedy there isn't more footage. Ultimately, though, I just think of them all as great talents who were a joy to watch when they were up and about - picking a "best" in such company is doing no more than identifying your own personal favourite. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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thompsoc wrote: | I know the greening incident is bad but I have seen a few given out by us.
Re Banksy on a certain Carlton player. |
The Greening incident was premeditated, off the ball, and occurred about 30 secs after the start of the game. Greening was bashed to the back of the head, after he had kicked the ball. This was pure thuggery directed to a fair player in Greening who was totally a ball player.
Banks vs Rhys-Jones, was simply an act of squaring up on a player who regularly threw punches around.
To in any way liken the cowardly assault on Greening, which left him permanently brain damaged, to a bit of biffo between two hard men of football, is totally out of order. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Pies4shaw wrote: | I think the difference between Greening and Daicos is that Daicos was a more limited all-round player - what he did well he probably did better than Greening but Greening was way faster, a brilliant overhead mark and, when he cut loose, quite unstoppable because he simply couldn't be matched up physically. Because he was so gifted in so many ways, if you were previewing a game in which Daicos played on Greening, both at their peak, you'd reasonably expect Greening to win the dual hands down because they both had startling ball skills, read the game like a book and kicked beautifully but Greening was bigger, stronger, faster and better overhead.
I don't recall Greening playing as a permanent forward. He played the wing, ruck-roved (which, in those days, meant resting on the HFF when you weren't on the ball) and, very occasionally, in the centre. Thus, most of Greening's best work was done well away from the goals. So, when he bagged a six or a seven, you knew that it was a reasonable effort because he was doing it in the general run of play, typically bursting away from a pack. Daicos kicked great bags of goals but he never did that whilst also having 40+ kicks, as Greening did.
Some indication of how perfect an all-round player Greening was may be found in what he did when he finally left Collingwood. He turned out at CHB for Port Melbourne for a year or two (in the days when the VFA was a proper competition of a good standard) and starred there in a winning GF or two. Whatever talent Daicos had, it would never have occurred to even the dumbest of coaches to play him as a KPD. Greening did and did it with astonishing ease.
All that said, I'm with Mudlark in the Carman camp - not just as the most talented Collingwood player I've seen but as the most talented player of all. It is a tragedy there isn't more footage. Ultimately, though, I just think of them all as great talents who were a joy to watch when they were up and about - picking a "best" in such company is doing no more than identifying your own personal favourite. |
The main difference is that Greening's career ended at the age of 22. Yet even by that age, he is clearly the best player I've ever seen. The closest player who comes to mind was Gary Ablett Sr, in that he was as good on the ground as in the air. Greening, however, was much faster and probably took even more spectacular high marks. If you crossed Ablett with Wanganeen, you'd get some idea of the freakish talent of Johnny Greening. |
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