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David ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
![](images/transdot.gif) to wish impossible things
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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It's all about socioeconomics more than anything. More people live in poverty in the west so you associate the western suburbs with crime, drug use and so on. But while poverty, crime and social dysfunction are more heavily concentrated in some places, they of course exist everywhere. No doubt they were a big factor here, too.
stui magpie wrote: | Should he have been in remand instead of on bail? Dunno, I'm not clear on what the charges were. It's not like the Jill Meagher case, that prick was a convicted rapist. He had form. This tool was known to cops but was a minor league player by comparison, until yesterday. |
This is a good observation and one that people should consider more often when they criticise the parole board, etc. you can't predict someone's going to turn into a mass murderer just because they already had a record of some kind. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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stui magpie ![Gemini Gemini](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_gemini.gif)
![](images/transdot.gif) Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
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David wrote: | It's all about socioeconomics more than anything. More people live in poverty in the west so you associate the western suburbs with crime, drug use and so on. But while poverty, crime and social dysfunction are more heavily concentrated in some places, they of course exist everywhere. No doubt they were a big factor here, too.
stui magpie wrote: | Should he have been in remand instead of on bail? Dunno, I'm not clear on what the charges were. It's not like the Jill Meagher case, that prick was a convicted rapist. He had form. This tool was known to cops but was a minor league player by comparison, until yesterday. |
This is a good observation and one that people should consider more often when they criticise the parole board, etc. you can't predict someone's going to turn into a mass murderer just because they already had a record of some kind. |
WTF has the western suburbs got to do with it? he lived in Windsor. You know, Sth yarra, Prahran, St kilda area _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu ![Capricorn Capricorn](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_capricorn.gif)
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Known to authorities due to his history of family violence and other offences, Mr Gargasoulas had been charged over family violence related offences on January 14 and appeared before an after-hours bail justice who allowed him to walk free despite police opposing his release.
... it is understood the government will consider issues such as whether there needs to be greater oversight of bail justices (who are often volunteers working after hours) and whether granting bail should be much tougher for certain types of offending
He was due to appear in court on Friday but instead absconded, and later used his Holden Commodore to charge through the city, eventually killing four people
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/bourke-street-tragedy-fears-death-toll-could-rise-20170121-gtvzd5.html ![Twisted Evil](images/smiles/icon_twisted.gif) _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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HAL
![](images/transdot.gif) Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
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Really. understood the government will consider issues such as whether [b]there needs to be greater oversight of bail justices who volunteers working after hours[b] and whether granting bail should be much tougher for certain types of offending
I was due to appear in court on Friday but absconded and used his Holden Commodore to charge the city killing four people
httpwww dottheagedot comdot auvictoriabourke-street-tragedy-fears-death-toll-could-rise-20170121-gtvzd5 are is? |
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watt price tully ![Scorpio Scorpio](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_scorpio.gif)
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1. We need to be careful not to associate mental illness with violence
2. Stui's earlier assumption that he's probably used methamphetamines (ICE) is more likely on the money in my opinion
2.1. (ICE) use should not mitigate his responsibility
3. Sounds like he was a psychopath & violent man to begin with
4. I think we can ask questions about emergency services but like a lot of what has been written we don't know what actually transpired & how services reacted: A few anecdotes even direct ones does not build a clear overall picture
5. I think we need to wait before apportioning blame to emergency services- t it is too early & too many understandable visceral responses does not make good evidence to assess the overall situation
6. While we're speculating I'm putting money on him being a nasty piece of manure well before this episode & probably had conduct issues as a kid
7. Lots of places in Prahran / Windsor are long standing Greek populated areas well before gentrification & well before the Greeks (so to speak) became rich enough to vote liberal. (same with South Melbourne amongst other places etc) _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Morrigu ![Capricorn Capricorn](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_capricorn.gif)
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^ My money is on BPD compounded with drug use! _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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stui magpie ![Gemini Gemini](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_gemini.gif)
![](images/transdot.gif) Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
BPD?
bi Polar disorder? _________________ Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu ![Capricorn Capricorn](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_capricorn.gif)
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^ Borderline personality disorder _________________ “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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David ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
![](images/transdot.gif) to wish impossible things
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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stui magpie wrote: | David wrote: | It's all about socioeconomics more than anything. More people live in poverty in the west so you associate the western suburbs with crime, drug use and so on. But while poverty, crime and social dysfunction are more heavily concentrated in some places, they of course exist everywhere. No doubt they were a big factor here, too.
stui magpie wrote: | Should he have been in remand instead of on bail? Dunno, I'm not clear on what the charges were. It's not like the Jill Meagher case, that prick was a convicted rapist. He had form. This tool was known to cops but was a minor league player by comparison, until yesterday. |
This is a good observation and one that people should consider more often when they criticise the parole board, etc. you can't predict someone's going to turn into a mass murderer just because they already had a record of some kind. |
WTF has the western suburbs got to do with it? he lived in Windsor. You know, Sth yarra, Prahran, St kilda area |
I know, I travel through it every day to get to work! My post was in response to What'sinaname's that this sort of crime is a 'western suburbs' thing. _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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HAL
![](images/transdot.gif) Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Morrigu wrote: | ^ Borderline personality disorder | I do not understand. |
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watt price tully ![Scorpio Scorpio](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_scorpio.gif)
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My money is on Sociopath. Those who have an intense dislike & show no remorse about hating sociology
My vote is on Sociopath. Dissocial PD that is the modern term for anti social personality disorder (ASPD) neither of which are defined as a mental illness - just a nasty prick basically. _________________ “I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw ![Leo Leo](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_leo.gif)
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Morrigu, I may have said this before but, if so, it's worth repeating: the Bail Act operates to create a presumption of bail, except in certain very limited cases. The bail magistrate is, of course, obliged to give effect to the Bail Act have a read through section 4). It is probable that the Act created a presumptive of entitlement to bail that could not be displaced in this case. Also, just because the police "opposed" the grant of bail in this case, you should not assume that their case was sensible or competently put or, most importantly, even capable - as a matter of law - of displacing the entitlement to bail.
My recollection is that the bail (as distinct from parole) problem with Bayley's case was that no-one managed to tell the person making the decision on the bail application about his serious prior convictions (in fact, I don't think the police opposed the grant of bail) - thus he was convicted of an assault at Geelong but appealed immediately and thereupon was granted bail unopposed. The system obviously needed fixing after that - but I didn't see anything to suggest that the wrong decision had been made on the information that was put before the Court.
Thus, tucked away in the part of the text you didn't bold is the real issue - whether the Parliament should amend its Bail Act so that magistrates are required to apply different rules that make it harder for people accused of a wider bunch of serious crimes to get bail.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David ![Libra Libra](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_libra.gif)
![](images/transdot.gif) to wish impossible things
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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watt price tully wrote: |
2.1. (ICE) use should not mitigate his responsibility
3. Sounds like he was a psychopath & violent man to begin with
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I find these curious claims. If he were literally a psychopath, then wouldn't that in some respects mitigate his responsibility? I think it's reasonable to argue that if he was impaired in any way (mental illness, drugs or both) then that does mitigate his responsibility (if not culpability, under our current legal paradigms). _________________ "Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Dave The Man ![Scorpio Scorpio](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_scorpio.gif)
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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People Claiming Mental Illness after using Drugs is just stupid.
People should not get Befits and Help when the Reason they are Mentally not Healthy because they Fried there Brains because of Joke.
The Court System need to be harder on them and not easier _________________ I am Da Man |
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Dave The Man ![Scorpio Scorpio](templates/subSilver/images/icon_mini_scorpio.gif)
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![](images/transdot.gif) Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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David wrote: | It's all about socioeconomics more than anything. More people live in poverty in the west so you associate the western suburbs with crime, drug use and so on. But while poverty, crime and social dysfunction are more heavily concentrated in some places, they of course exist everywhere. No doubt they were a big factor here, too.
stui magpie wrote: | Should he have been in remand instead of on bail? Dunno, I'm not clear on what the charges were. It's not like the Jill Meagher case, that prick was a convicted rapist. He had form. This tool was known to cops but was a minor league player by comparison, until yesterday. |
This is a good observation and one that people should consider more often when they criticise the parole board, etc. you can't predict someone's going to turn into a mass murderer just because they already had a record of some kind. |
Same as Frankston _________________ I am Da Man |
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