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Redlight
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
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| David wrote: | I was just reading that comment thread, and apart from the comments from Simon Buckley (which seem long on opinion and short on content), the most interesting aspect is what McNamara himself says in the attached newspaper piece:
| Shae McNamara wrote: | In 2009, when we were in the pool, I said to him, 'Hey man. I don't really like the way they are talking to you […]'
He said, 'It is what it is, man. It is what this culture is. They are years behind America. You will find out.' I remember thinking, 'Is this really happening?'
[...]
He said. 'Don't say anything. It is not going to change and it is only going to create more chaos, so don't.' I took his word, but I felt really bad. |
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That quote is very telling and extremely believable.
Many years ago I worked with an indigenous guy who was part of the social group that formed. His nickname was 'Midnight', he introduced himself as that and never, ever showed any discomfort with the name.
I can't help but look back and wonder.
It really doesn't surprise me that the players could use <snip - please don't specify the nickname on Nick's - Pies4shaw for BBMods> (though that is a fair bit more loaded than 'midnight') and be completely oblivious, as long as it was said with affection and H didn't show any discomfort.
From the perspective of an American? Wow. Although they may be equally shocked by the idea of greeting a good friend with 'G'day c*&#t!'.
I'd love to know how that <snip - please don't specify the nickname on Nick's - Pies4shaw for BBMods> nickname originated, it could be quite illuminating.
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| David wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ I think under my XXN, Simon Buckley would be obliged to concede that he has no idea how the nickname first came to be used. In that context, it scarcely matters what H might or might not have said to him when they met at Collingwood in late 2009 or early 2010 (if he even has a proper recollection of that conversation more than a decade later).
Again, though, talking about the specific case of H is quite irrelevant to this thread. As we know, the authors of the report did not report on that situation. |
Who knows what Buckley would be obliged to concede.
Cross Examination :
P4S: Did you ever call H by his nickname xxxx?
Buckley: Yes.
P4S: When did you first do that?
Buckley: From the time that I first met him in 2009.
P4S: Why?
Buckley: We were warming up with kick to kick on my first run at training. I took a massive hanger over him. Then I did it again. I was just too good for him. He picked himself up off the ground, stuck his hand out to me, and said words to the effect of “G’day, I am xxxx”.
P4S: Were you concerned that you were calling a black man that name?
Buckley: Well yes, so I was hesitant at first but H said to me words to the effect of “Don’t worry about it, that’s what Mum used to call me, I told the boys that, it’s ok”.
But, being serious for a second, if that FB post above is genuine, the nickname issue which the media loves is not the issue. H has other issues, which makes sense. |
I don't understand why you're making up that fictional scenario. Is that how you wish it had played out, or what? |
You mustn’t have read the preamble to my post. My post had nothing at all to do with how the H/Buckley Relationship worked. There was a brief discussion between two lawyers as to what Buckley would be forced to concede on cross examination, as to what he knew about the origins of the nickname. As a result, I provided a hypothetical transcript of a cross examination so that it ended in a manner different to that suggested by P4S.
You didn’t read the bits where I said that it wasn’t serious, that Buckley was taking hangers on H at training (that would never happen, one was All Australian, the other was barely insurance), and that the nick name issue itself was not even H’s issue?
How could you possibly think the nickname scenario that I referred to was something that I wish had played out that way? I have read a lot of your posts and they are normally fair, but you seem to have missed the mark by a long way here.
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Thanks for the clarification – it just occurred to me that a casual reader could easily have mistaken this for an actual quote, and I thought you might have been being a little mischievous. Apologies if I misunderstood.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: |
Fatui Attata was Tongan, not Fijian.
I played school football against him and later on he was a tenant of mine. He paid the rent and the bond was returned at the end of the lease! |
Thanks for correcting me dude. He was one of my favourite players and wish he had played more games.
His racist abuse was one of the very few times I very nearly had my head smashed by a feral Essenscum fan who I confronted about the racial stuff towards Atatta. Luckily for me a few burly Collingwood supporters backed me up so the scum feral had second thoughts about starting a fight. That’s another reason that I love nearly all Collingwood supporters.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Ronnie McKeowns boots
Ronnie Mckeowns boots
Joined: 27 Jul 2020
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Wow...just wow...Simon Buckley? The Key Man himself?
Pretty funny H giving him a whack about being shithouse
_________________
"You hate a mean man, a grasping man, a man who wants everything and gives nothing. That’s Collingwood. They are a law unto themselves"
Jack 'Captain Blood' Dyer |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| David wrote: | | Thanks for the clarification – it just occurred to me that a casual reader could easily have mistaken this for an actual quote, and I thought you might have been being a little mischievous. Apologies if I misunderstood. |
Thanks, no problems.
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Lazza wrote: | | 5 from the wing on debut wrote: |
Fatui Attata was Tongan, not Fijian.
I played school football against him and later on he was a tenant of mine. He paid the rent and the bond was returned at the end of the lease! |
Thanks for correcting me dude. He was one of my favourite players and wish he had played more games.
His racist abuse was one of the very few times I very nearly had my head smashed by a feral Essenscum fan who I confronted about the racial stuff towards Atatta. Luckily for me a few burly Collingwood supporters backed me up so the scum feral had second thoughts about starting a fight. That’s another reason that I love nearly all Collingwood supporters. |
I have different memories of Fatui - the main one being that we went for a mark and his knee caught me in the nuts and put me down! I don’t think he ever had a senior game though. I recall the crowd at Vic Park chanting “torp” when he was in the two’s and had marked.
Yes, they were feral at Essendon. I remember a brawl there in the street after our game in 76. It was a real western movie style all in.
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Presti35 
Dick Lee for Legend Status
Joined: 05 Oct 2001
Location: London, England
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Disappointing that the juicy part of the conversation has now been deleted. I had been tagged by a former player and didnt get to see what it said. 
Over 130 replies...
_________________
A Goal Saved Is 2 Goals Earned! |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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H was a very good player, my fave memory of him was booting the sealer goal in the 2010 GF, big goal, then falling too his knees, so happy. Real pity its all gone pear shaped for him. I recall some yrs ago, him saying in an interview, that he has at home, a special chair, that he called his Thinking Chair, in which he would medidate, or think out the worlds problems, like wars, hunger, poverty, racism, hate, etc. I also recall him at the Deees, taking two weeks off footy when Muhammad Ali died, he was so upset. I found this kinda werid, as H was born years after Ali quit boxing, long after he retired from the ring. I recall Ail well, the big bout in Manilla, v smokin Joe frazier, and he was most famous as he lost his title cos he opposed the Vietnam war. I recall him very well, but for H, i found it strange that he would need two weeks off to mourn a sports star so long retired. ??
H sure is a different dude, a very complex person indeed.!
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Cruisinwithdids
Joined: 21 Sep 2016
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Gerry Cooper wrote: | | As an aside, I notice the cakewalk is still in our song's lyrics. |
I dont get your point bout timing, last week none of us knew what was in that report,neither did our players,men and women, trainers etc. Then Robbo, who has wanted to destroy Collingwood for years, leaked it, as to whom gave it too him, thats another issue. The report came out, the current players, trainers etc, read it and took it upon themselves to act upon it, hence the apology letter, yesterday, and tho i was initially against it, due to perhaps litigation, now i can see it was a heartfelt action on their behalf, to right the wrongs of the past. For H to just dismiss it out our hand,thnk its a stunt, is an insult to our current players who obviously had the best of intentions and sincerity in their action. And i see no issue with our indigenous players signing it, they did it on their own free will, to say they themselves are willing to move on, and not dwell in the past, to extend a hand to H, and say, we are all sorry for the hurt u endured, we are all Collingwood, the only club who has had the guts and fortitude to conduct such an investigation, internally, by an independent group. Let us see what the other Clubs do now, they do not come to this with clean hands, rest assured of that. |
Sorry but it’s not ‘guts’ that has forced this report. It’s legal action brought on by the ignorance and stupidity of MCGuire and Co who have allowed the club to be unaccountable on all levels, as he is himself. Every sexist and racist comment MCGuire has made he has silenced his own organisation (other than Lamumba) and put his organisation’s energy into publicly defending him for the indefensible. McGuire is ignorant, social uneducated. Basically a narcissistic fool. It’s a boys club, topped off by his decade long coaching failure mate. The moment he is gone the club can start to heal. The bloke is toxic.
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Legal action did not force the club to commission the report. Proper legal advice would have been not to obtain a report.
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Dr Pie wrote: | | Thank you finding the quote David. I am currently down the coast and therefore 100k away from my files and my PhD thesis so I was unable to quote the date or the full details of Shaw's comment. |
Are you saying that you wrote a thesis on racism at Collingwood therefore you are Dr Pie and that you have in your files newspaper quotes of Tony Shaw from 1991? You should apply to go on Hard Quiz. |
No, I wrote a thesis on transformation of the VFL to the AFL between 1975 and 1996. Racism was one of many issues covered although the major emphasis was on professionalisation and commercialisation.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Cruisinwithdids wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | Gerry Cooper wrote: | | As an aside, I notice the cakewalk is still in our song's lyrics. |
I dont get your point bout timing, last week none of us knew what was in that report,neither did our players,men and women, trainers etc. Then Robbo, who has wanted to destroy Collingwood for years, leaked it, as to whom gave it too him, thats another issue. The report came out, the current players, trainers etc, read it and took it upon themselves to act upon it, hence the apology letter, yesterday, and tho i was initially against it, due to perhaps litigation, now i can see it was a heartfelt action on their behalf, to right the wrongs of the past. For H to just dismiss it out our hand,thnk its a stunt, is an insult to our current players who obviously had the best of intentions and sincerity in their action. And i see no issue with our indigenous players signing it, they did it on their own free will, to say they themselves are willing to move on, and not dwell in the past, to extend a hand to H, and say, we are all sorry for the hurt u endured, we are all Collingwood, the only club who has had the guts and fortitude to conduct such an investigation, internally, by an independent group. Let us see what the other Clubs do now, they do not come to this with clean hands, rest assured of that. |
Sorry but it’s not ‘guts’ that has forced this report. It’s legal action brought on by the ignorance and stupidity of MCGuire and Co who have allowed the club to be unaccountable on all levels, as he is himself. Every sexist and racist comment MCGuire has made he has silenced his own organisation (other than Lamumba) and put his organisation’s energy into publicly defending him for the indefensible. McGuire is ignorant, social uneducated. Basically a narcissistic fool. It’s a boys club, topped off by his decade long coaching failure mate. The moment he is gone the club can start to heal. The bloke is toxic. |
IN 1999 the so called "toxic" McGuire basically saved the Club from extinction and insolvency, when he took over as President, he revambed a tired and ageing Board, streamlined the Club, and got us major sponsors and we got back into the black, in debit, largely because of him we still have a Collingwood F C. He deserves credit for that, notwithstanding recent history, which i have no doubt he regrets, such as his foolish comment on Goodes, he has his faults, and is resigning at seasons end, but he did work his butt off to save our Club, all those years ago. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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