Our veteran quandary

[The Black and White Lion]

So Fly confirmed that Mitchell has been put to pasture for the rest of the season with a view to starting the pre-season early. Fly said he hopes Mitchell has more to go in his legs so on that basis it would seem he's playing on next year. Fly mentions the weekly list management meetings now but gave nothing else away.

@qldmagpie67 any more news on Wright's return to Pie Land this week?

https://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/video/ ... 1xewucrk5j

[qldmagpie67]

Hey black n white
Last I heard he went into the club on Monday and has had talks with Browne and Lucuria
I haven’t heard anything about it since sorry
Some times meetings don’t always make it outside the 4 walls
I do know that Wright will stand his ground on certain duties he feels that fall under his jurisdiction and won’t “job share” those
The longer it goes the more I’m leaning towards believing Wright will depart the club otherwise I feel that it would have been announced he’s back to work already.

[Presti35]

Been reading that lots of people are wanting to retire off Sidebottom.

Yes, you always need to build for the future, but for me, he's done enough to get a contract for 1 more season. And what harm does 1 more season do when we are in the window? I'd let him make the decision. I'd hate to see it forced on him or end up going to another club for a year.

[The Black and White Lion]

The longer it goes the more I’m leaning towards believing Wright will depart the club otherwise I feel that it would have been announced he’s back to work already.

Yeah that feels about right. I'm expecting an announcement to come after our competitive season has finished, hopefully that's in October

[qldmagpie67]

I get administrators come and go in football but right now we have Leppa and Bolton filling the majority of the role and neither are experienced
Our club is at a defining point.
We all agree the list needs some work in a couple areas. And most agree we need to make sure how and when we move on from our veterans is done right as to not deplete the team of experience and balance that with giving youth the opportunity to take over more responsibility in the team.
For mine I think we also need to look at refreshing the team from within.
Meaning moving playing into new roles
This season I’ve been disappointed with IQ. Last season he was the highest rated player for winning 1 on 1 contests inside our defensive 50. By memory he lost a total of 3 from over 60 for the season. This year he’s losing close to 30% of those same contests. Also his rebounding and run and carry has all but evaporated. Is this by design (change in team personal with Murphy gone) or by the player not performing as well ?
Also as much as I like the endeavour of Noble he’s unreliable at times and becomes a deer in the headlights or overplays his hands. The best players know there limitations and don’t try to do things they can’t. You’ll never see Pendles looking to take running shoots on goal from 50+ outside he lowers the eyes and hits up a team mate. He also drops his head quickly if he makes an error and then tries to hard to do something to make it right often leading to another error.
Josh D hasn’t had the same impact as last year. Maybe he’s got a bit more attention off the ball and has had to get used to that.
So why not look at using IQ’s noted speed in a wing and move Josh to high half forward role who can role forward into the midfield as well as he’s a heck of a kick for goal.
Long is never going to be a high possession midfielder it seems but why jot use him like we use to use Levi Greenwood and use his size and tackling ability to put the pressure on an opposing mid. He did the job for bits and pieces last weekend on Cripps (when Pendles took a break) and did ok. Maybe define his role to be squarely a stopper and give Pendles more room to be a creator.
WHE has been our go to Mr Fix It. I would like to see him used as a defender. He’s got a great leap to use spoiling but he is a way better than average reader of play. He’s shown he can do a Murphy like job down back so give him 1 role and let him do it.
Lipinski has had some really good games but also some very quiet games. He has the body size to play as an inside mid. That seems the role he’s best suited to (in rotation) with Mitchell Pendles Nick Long Schulz JDG. He can also creep forward and kick a goal as shown a few times this season so let’s define our best 6/8 mids and figure out a rotation that gives as the required fire power on the field at all times.
Forward wise McStay is vital. He’s shown in just 2 weeks coming off a ACL he can take a grab and has straightened us up loads. He’s vital to our structure and ability to score heavily.
Also as much this is a team game Hill needs at times remember his first job is to kick goals not bring others into the game. Hill should be kicking 35+ goals a season easy. He can leap and he’s smart and quick.
Lastly I want our assistant coaches (whoever they are) to be solely focused on coaching not filling other roles within the footy department like this season. I feel this has hurt us (no there’s no direct proof) but our system has been torn apart so often this season something isn’t being coached right or reinforced the right way during the week.

[The Black and White Lion]

^
Yep I agree some positional changes could benefit a few players. IQ’s struggles are most likely mental, no idea what’s been on Moore’s plate this year, the injured crew are obvious while it’s also obvious the veterans have dropped their output over the season compared to previous years.

The younger and mid age group definitely need to take more of the load. That means giving them the chance and supporting them to raise their efforts to a new level. Need to clear the way and stop relying on others who’ve done it for too long.

[Presti35]

So my understanding is that there are disagreements behind closed doors in regards to a few 30+ year olds.

The main focus being around Sidebottom.

Wright has been away from the club for a while and it's sounding more and more like he won't be staying. So if his heart isn't in it and he wants to move on, then let him.

Give Sidebottom a 1 year deal and let him go out on his own terms. He deserves that.

[qldmagpie67]

Presti that’s been ongoing most of the year to be honest
Sidey and his management have been pushing for a deal all year.
There was a time frame of no extensions for veteran players prior to July which was a agreement prior to Wright’s departure for his holiday
During the season there’s been several phone hookups and discussions
As it sits right now Wright is contracted as general manager of football operation and that is all encompassing (overriding Bolton Leppa etc)
While hes been gone they’ve been job sharing and the club believes that’s the way forward
Wright is undecided right now it seems
But he is still in charge of list decisions and he is adamant the list needs rejuvenation right now and not next year. The coaches want the veteran players to have a say on their own future Wright doesn’t believe in this process at all.
So there is a stalemate really
In all honesty if Wright stays it will be the end of a couple veterans guaranteed and it won’t be there decision.
The thing is will Wright stay or not

[SLORT]

So, Wright leaves and the veterans stay? Or 1-2 veterans moved on, maybe a trade or two to refresh the list (Hawktuahs style), and Wrighty to stay at Pies post Tassie Devils? What's the better option? I'm thinking that I trust Wright more than trying to maintain our "window" a la Geebung.

[Presti35]

Sidebottom won't be here in 2026. So what we are really weighing up is 1 more season or not?

So what's the right answer here? So Sidey goes on 1 more season? What is the actual harm of it? Does it prevent us making finals? Does is stop other players coming through? I'd actually be more worried about the players we've drafted recently. And young players are injected into a club every year. So we go the way of the Hawks? or the Cats? or the Tigers? or WCE? ... no matter what happens the press will say it was wrong anyway.

I just think that pushing him out will leave a bad taste in the mouths of many at the club. He is a 300 game legend of the club and I think deserves better than to be pushed out.

Also they say the club wants to bring in draft picks, yet trade 2 for Schultz? Which has hurt us more than anything. Because that pick this year could be used or traded. And letting Sidey go gets us which pick exactly? Wow an extra spot on the list which is pick 70. Awesome.

They also said 2023 is the older premiership team ever? And 2010 was the youngest? Isn't that funny.

Pendles is 37, Howe is 35. Both are expected to play in 2025.
Sidebottom and Cox are 34. I think it's mainly these two that are being debated about.
Elliott is 33. He was written off after his injuries, but has come back pretty good. Could he be thinking about retirement?
Checkers, Mitchell, WHE, and Crisp are 32. WHE is coming back. Checkers too. Mitchell was in trade roumers to North a month or 2 back.
McStay and Cameron are 30. We'll worry about these 2 in another year or 2.

I can see the problem here. And can see why people are worried. What I'm worried about, is how the heck do you replace guys like Howe, SP, etc...

So is it Wright wants 2 over 30's gone any two... or does he specifically want Sidebottom gone?

[qldmagpie67]

Presti as I heard it it was 2 veterans wasn’t named any player specifically
I get all the above points but I think the upcoming Tassie team in Wright’s mind changes the playing field
I think the counter to your argument is
If we keep playing Sidey do the coaches feel obliged to keep picking him based on past performances not current form
Would dropping him and have him playing VFL leave a bad taste in supporters mouths as well
This is the tough reality of these decisions
Wright’s ability to take the name away and deal with the facts on hand is why he’s so highly regarded
Look at the names he moved on at Hawthorn Mitchell Lewis Hodge Roughead do you think that was popular at the time ?
We will never know if we have the next 250 game player if there not given a chance to play
Not every player is going to come in and dominate like Nick D from the get go many actually most take time. Even Sidey himself took time to become a automatic weekly selection
It was really until the later part of 2011 that he really started to show consistent weekly performances. Prior to that he spent time in and out of the side and many on here questioned his spot (ask Piedys who used to go mental most weeks over it)
I understand the emotion attached to such decisions but sooner or later we will lose all the veterans better that be spread over a period of time not all in a season
If in 2025 we lost Pendles Sidey Howe Cox Mitchell how would that hurt the younger players coming in to the team ?

[lazzadesilva]

Losing a big chunk of experience in one go is only relevant if the club is planning a rebuild around the younger players. Otherwise you can set yourself up for a rapid decline. In cricket, the Aussies struggled big time after the simultaneous retirements of Chappel, Lillee and Marsh. Pendles will be invaluable next season with the on field guidance of the younger players to improve their skills and develop new ones. Smart thinking.

[lazzadesilva]

DP

[Gerry Cooper]

Pendlebury is sure to play on next year as he has been still a solid (if more limited) contributor all year. Sidebottom, outside of the kids has probably been our most vulnerable player all year. Its been a bit sad to watch that this year and next year will be worse. If he is offered a one year contract, it should be made crystal clear to him that a seniors birth is not a given for him and he can expect to spend time in the reserves. Yes he has been an ornament to the game for us but his time is rapidly coming. I would rather see him go out with some dignity at the end of this year. Unfortunately, at the end sentiment can not determine our team make up going forward. Football is a results driven game and we need the potentially best performing team on the park at all times. If Sidey doesnt like it and puts himself up to play elsewhere, then so be it. Players cannot be allowed (with perhaps one exception - and that fact is perhaps unduly influencing the discussions around the fates of other older players) to determine their own future - that decision is always the club's. That's all there is to it really.

Those wishing to keep Sidey should ask themselves: "Will he be a better player in 2025 than he is in 2024?

[Johnno75]

If we keep our veterans then don’t expect us to just magically bounce back into the 8. Our mids can’t win the ball late in games and we slow right down and teams just run over us.