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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| PyreneesPie wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ Not that I want, for a moment, to stop people investigating irrelevant byways, but Simon Buckley joined Collingwood at the end of 2009, 4 years after the nickname was first used. |
I find this to be a rather patronizing slant on people's efforts to digest what's happening with their club. Many of us would be trying to understand the nature of the systemic racism that Heritier suffered and any available information helps with that and is therefore hardly an "irrelevant byway".
I for one have been researching old articles for the last few hours and I think this one gives an accurate portrayal from Heritier's viewpoint :
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-05/heritier-lumumba-strength-in-african-culture-collingwood-afl/12820942
What has also become obvious to me is that H has also made a few errors, perhaps the worst being completely losing his cool with the coach and verbally abusing him. Not saying it wasn't warranted, but it was a sort of sliding doors moment and a confrontation/discussion with a calmer approach could've yielded more positive results - perhaps. It certainly undermined the headway he had been making with confronting discrimination within the club's walls and precipitated his departure. |
It's irrelevant to this thread because the report is not about Lumumba. It's not rocket surgery.
I suppose what is relevant about the issue with H is that the Club could probably have avoided all of this by treating his concerns like they were real, instead of casting repeated aspersions on his mental stability. As a management strategy, that does appear to have been about as effective as Wily Coyote lighting the fuse-wire after Roadrunner has moved the explosives right behind him. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Presti35 wrote: | Lumumba himself has left a comment and has whacked Simon Buckley for six over the fence...  |
Worth posting in full, given his critics have been given time here:
| Heritier Lumumba wrote: | Simon Buckley
I hope life has been kind to you since our paths last crossed some 8 or 9 years ago.
I wasn’t going to bother giving energy to your off hand remarks, however, the more I thought about it, I realised that the people who are on this page, and have seen your comments, could benefit greatly from seeing the logic of your arguments be scrutinised.
1. “He made the nickname up for himself.” Although we indeed were teammates, the time that we spent within that paradigm was a mere 20% of the time that I was at the CFC i.e. 2 years out of the 10 years that I was there. As I have consistently stated over the past 4 years, the nickname ‘Chimp’ began in 2005, during the preseason and, no, I did not make it up myself. Despite the nickname being overtly racist, unfortunately, it was not the worst facet of the interpersonal racism that I encountered during my 10 years at CFC. Within 2 months of me being at the club, I had already been exposed to a culture where racist ideas, in the form of jokes, stereotypes and direct abuse was prevalent.
2. “He was all for it when he was winning flags and playing well.” I’ve heard this flimsy argument thrown around by white people who aren’t familiar with what I have already said on the public record. They are using a reductionist framework to evaluate how racism manifests for individuals. I’ve gone on the public record to state that from 2004 up until 2013, I had adopted a “go along to get along” approach to cope with being within the club’s culture. When I was “winning flags and playing well”, during the 2 years you were on the list, I was a young man of 23-24 years of age, and had yet to understand the dangerous implications of the racism that was allowed to proliferate within the club’s culture. This culture existed before I was even there; simply ask my brother, Leon Davis, who is 100% in support of me.
3. “He all of a sudden 10 years later wants to be a humanitarian.” Where do I even being with this one? Firstly, I have always held humanitarian values close to my way of life. When I arrived at Collingwood in 2004, I began immediately engaging with the community in myriad ways. I became the AFL’s 1st and Multicultural ambassador because I believed in sport’s ability to empower communities and unify people. If you analyze the 12 year football career I had, you will see that my humanitarian work has been a consistent feature of my life, rather than a journey that I have just embarked on.
4. “He never complained when he was winning flags and getting a kick himself and calling himself that name.” Unfortunately, I was unsuccessful in the many attempts that I had made to address the club’s racism from the beginning of my career to the time that you saw me “getting a kick” and “winning flags”. You will find that the explanation for this can be found in the ‘Do better’ report that states that the club had no system or process in place to prevent or support the non-white players who were exposed to the racism. The racism that I faced was never about the nickname, and I refuse to allow the argument to be reduced to that. I was called black c*nt, black dog, n*gger, just to name a few things; I heard the most outrageous racist ideas and was exposed to racist stereotypes. Even with all of this taking place, it was only one aspect of the CFC’s racism problem, as stated in the “do Better” report; the most severe aspect of CFC’s issues was the systemic racism that had nothing to do with the players, but everything to do with the organisational leadership of the club.
5. “Now all of a sudden he’s out of the media and wants to be back in the limelight and get a few bucks.” Wow, you really must not have many black friends. How may black friends do you have? If you can count them on your hand, please take a seat and listen. I am black, have a black family and live within various black communities around the world, and I can assure you I am yet to encounter a black person who wants to get “limelight” for the racial discrimination that they were subjected to. The media attention that my pursuit for justice has attracted has, in fact, made me re-live the severe trauma of the darkest days of my life. If racism is so prevalent in society, why is it that you don’t see many people speaking up? Thats because it takes sooooooo much of our energy and is extremely painful. Trust me, not one ounce of what I am doing is fun.
6. “Weak as piss.” HA. I can clearly remember competing with you for a spot for the 2 years you were on the list. Despite all of the challenges that I had to navigate, that you did not, I was still stronger, faster, and more powerful than you. I beat you, convincingly; you were easy. I think it is fair to draw the conclusion that you were much weaker than I was!
7. “I agree with Leon and all indigenous people. And love them for it. Harry has nothing to do with that. He’s Brazilian.“ This comment really does show your ignorance. “Brazilian” is a Nationality. I encourage you to do your research on the difference between Nationality, race and ethnicity, then we will be able to engage in further discussion. Also, when was the last time you spoke with any of your Indigenous cfc teammates? I speak with them, weekly.
Finally, if you would like to learn more about the club’s issues and how I was severely affected by the club’s failings, I’m more than open to having a private discussion with you.
I wish you all the best on your journey, Simon. |
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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^ Thanks, I was going to ask what H had said.
Before I read it, I did wonder whether point 6 was going to be addressed - Buckley was a depth medium-defender, after all, whereas H played well over 200 games and was an All-Australian.
Last edited by Pies4shaw on Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| Pies4shaw wrote: |
It's irrelevant to this thread because the report is not about Lumumba. It's not rocket surgery.
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I disagree. The report concluded that there is systemic racism at Collingwood. The most highly publicized example of this is Heritier, so it's relevant.
Now here you are wanting to know what H said on FB   |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ It isn't relevant - but it is funny to see him smack down Simon Buckley. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Lazza wrote: | This racism stuff cuts both ways. I played cricket in the 70’s and 80’s and saw and heard white players racially sledged by non white players. They were called white trash, albino mongrels, Honky Tonk wankers etc etc. I may or may not have partaken in this practice😊
Older posters will remember that a Collingwood player (Alan Atkinson?) was once falsely accused of racist sledging by a Carlscum rotter. The scum player later admitted that he had been asked to this by the Scum officials to put the Collingwood player off his game.
As a brown skinned person I was once called a “Coconut” by an indigenous person which I later learnt was an insult insinuating that while I had a brown skin on the outside, I was acting like a white skin on the inside, hence the coconut jibe.
Being of Sri Lankan background, I also remember the Sri Lankan cricket team complaining of being abused on their first ever series in Australia in the 70’s. This was when they were soft as butter and naive about playing top class cricket. Any team that tries this now will be dealt with immediately.
I remember indigenous Umpire James being racially abused by the crowd at the MCG. I remember the Krakeur brothers and Gavin Wangerning being abused, i remember a Collingwood player of Fijian background (Fatiu Attata) being heckled and racially abused at Windy Hill by Essenscum ferals. The AFL did nothing and therefore the sledgers felt enabled as it being part of football.
Ok I realise that we are all different beings who handle racist comments differently. When I was racially sledged in cricket, I racially sledged back immediately, sort of a Mexican stand-off. However after the game, it was all smiles and handshakes. Maybe those times being no more is the reason why we see episodes like this issue blowing up. |
Fatui Attata was Tongan, not Fijian.
I played school football against him and later on he was a tenant of mine. He paid the rent and the bond was returned at the end of the lease! |
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Wonka
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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| Presti35 wrote: | Still going....
| Simon Buckley wrote: | | Joffa, Yer. They all have 'mental health' issues when they want money |
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From the quoted comments of Simon Buckley here, it appears that it is Simon Buckley who has the worst "mental health" issues, and it was obviously a mistake on Collingwood's part to recruit him to the club. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ I think under my XXN, Simon Buckley would be obliged to concede that he has no idea how the nickname first came to be used. In that context, it scarcely matters what H might or might not have said to him when they met at Collingwood in late 2009 or early 2010 (if he even has a proper recollection of that conversation more than a decade later).
Again, though, talking about the specific case of H is quite irrelevant to this thread. As we know, the authors of the report did not report on that situation. |
Who knows what Buckley would be obliged to concede.
Cross Examination :
P4S: Did you ever call H by his nickname xxxx?
Buckley: Yes.
P4S: When did you first do that?
Buckley: From the time that I first met him in 2009.
P4S: Why?
Buckley: We were warming up with kick to kick on my first run at training. I took a massive hanger over him. Then I did it again. I was just too good for him. He picked himself up off the ground, stuck his hand out to me, and said words to the effect of “G’day, I am xxxx”.
P4S: Were you concerned that you were calling a black man that name?
Buckley: Well yes, so I was hesitant at first but H said to me words to the effect of “Don’t worry about it, that’s what Mum used to call me, I told the boys that, it’s ok”.
But, being serious for a second, if that FB post above is genuine, the nickname issue which the media loves is not the issue. H has other issues, which makes sense. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| ^ I agree, although I should, perhaps, mention that those aren't the questions I had in mind (and, no, I'm not going to discuss what they would be - unless I'm briefed). |
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Wonka
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
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| David wrote: |
| Heritier Lumumba wrote: | Simon Buckley
7. “I agree with Leon and all indigenous people. And love them for it. Harry has nothing to do with that. He’s Brazilian.“ This comment really does show your ignorance. “Brazilian” is a Nationality. I encourage you to do your research on the difference between Nationality, race and ethnicity, then we will be able to engage in further discussion.
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Simon Buckley's ignorance is shared by many people in Australia, who should all do research on the difference between nationality, race and ethnicity, and especially why the common restrictive use of the word "Australian", which excludes at least a quarter of Australians, is just wrong. |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| How can it be possible for the word “Australian” to exclude at least a quarter of Australians? Does Australian have a different definition than Australian does ? |
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5 from the wing on debut
Joined: 27 May 2016
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | ^ I agree, although I should, perhaps, mention that those aren't the questions I had in mind (and, no, I'm not going to discuss what they would be - unless I'm briefed). |
If I am ever required to brief someone to appear on Facebook, you are my man! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wonka wrote: | | David wrote: |
| Heritier Lumumba wrote: | Simon Buckley
7. “I agree with Leon and all indigenous people. And love them for it. Harry has nothing to do with that. He’s Brazilian.“ This comment really does show your ignorance. “Brazilian” is a Nationality. I encourage you to do your research on the difference between Nationality, race and ethnicity, then we will be able to engage in further discussion.
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Simon Buckley's ignorance is shared by many people in Australia, who should all do research on the difference between nationality, race and ethnicity, and especially why the common restrictive use of the word "Australian", which excludes at least a quarter of Australians, is just wrong. |
Correct weight.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| 5 from the wing on debut wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | ^ I think under my XXN, Simon Buckley would be obliged to concede that he has no idea how the nickname first came to be used. In that context, it scarcely matters what H might or might not have said to him when they met at Collingwood in late 2009 or early 2010 (if he even has a proper recollection of that conversation more than a decade later).
Again, though, talking about the specific case of H is quite irrelevant to this thread. As we know, the authors of the report did not report on that situation. |
Who knows what Buckley would be obliged to concede.
Cross Examination :
P4S: Did you ever call H by his nickname xxxx?
Buckley: Yes.
P4S: When did you first do that?
Buckley: From the time that I first met him in 2009.
P4S: Why?
Buckley: We were warming up with kick to kick on my first run at training. I took a massive hanger over him. Then I did it again. I was just too good for him. He picked himself up off the ground, stuck his hand out to me, and said words to the effect of “G’day, I am xxxx”.
P4S: Were you concerned that you were calling a black man that name?
Buckley: Well yes, so I was hesitant at first but H said to me words to the effect of “Don’t worry about it, that’s what Mum used to call me, I told the boys that, it’s ok”.
But, being serious for a second, if that FB post above is genuine, the nickname issue which the media loves is not the issue. H has other issues, which makes sense. |
I don't understand why you're making up that fictional scenario. Is that how you wish it had played out, or what?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Thanks David for posting H’s view points. Says it all really. Clear, concise and nothing to argue with.
I expect like Trump supporters the right wingers will continue to complain.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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